Daniel-Marian Baboiu  > wrote:
>If I remember correctly, there was a city in Poland (now in Ukraine) called
>Kameniec / Kamenice. I don't think it has any link with the Hungarian
>"oven". 

I doubt there is any relation between the two.  The root of Kameniec is
the word "kamien", meaning "stone".  The Hungarian "kemence" means a
kind of traditional oven.

Joe

In article >, Nagy Peter > wrote:
>
>Vitakulturad lebilincsel.

Amilyen az Adjonisten, ...

>>Gozom se volt, hogy yiddish szorol volt
>>szo, amig Vera valaszat nem lattam.
>
>Fajdalom, ezt nem all modomban elhinni.

Hat az engem nem igen erdekel, hogy mit hiszel, mit nem.  A baj az,
amikor a hiteden epited fel a vadjaidat.

>Gondolatmenet:  "nem kedvelem a zsidokat, es valakit nem kedvelni jogom
>van, azt gondolok amit akarok.  Es amit gondolok, azt ki is mondhatom,
>mert ebbol all a szolasszabadsag.  Tehat en most hangosan kimondom hogy
>miert utalom a zsidokat."  Az en nezetem szerint te is ebbe a
>kategoriaba tartozol.

Na ne mond!  Hol irtam azt, hogy en nem kedvelem a zsidokat?  Azert az
egy alapos bekepzeltseg, ha abbol, hogy teged nem kedvellek, azt
kivetited az egesz zsidosagra.
>
>Felreertes ne essek:  a mai mo.-i torvenyek szerint mindez legitim.  (Es
>ez igy helyes, amig az ilyen kijelentesek nem uszito jelleguek.)  

No es persze ki allapitja meg azt, hogy azok uszito jelleguek?  Mivel
tudtommal a Lex Gonczben olyan kitetelek vannak, hogy "ami alkalmas
arra, hogy felelmet keltsen kisebbsegek tagjaiban", az ilyen torvenyek
gumitorvenyek.
>
>NPA hozzad hasonlo, demagogiajaban mogotted semmivel sem marad el.

Igazan?  Gondolom, akik jobban ismernek, mint te, jot rohognek ezen.

>Amennyire meg tudom itelni, NPA antiszemita.

Ezt talan jobb lenne, ha vele tisztaznad.

>NPA alapvetoen megvaltozott.  Feljelentese nem kelt bennem kulonosebb
>erzelmeket.  Pozitivnak fogom ertekelni, ha kiderul hogy a feljelento
>vadjai jogosak es igazak voltak (pl. fasisztoid zsidogyulolo, felbujto,
>nepirtasra lazit, gyermekpornot terjeszt); negativnak, ha vetlensege
>bebizonyosodik (magyaran nem uszito antiszemita).  Barmely koztes
>esetben koztes velemenyt fogok kepviselni.

Az egeszben a pornoterjesztes a legnagyobb abszurdum, mivel en soha nem
lattam semmit NPA-tol ami meg veletlenul is erre utalna.  Szerintem a
patkany ezt csak azert dobta be, mivel az utobbi idoben a porno
vaddal mar voltak sikeres allami beavatkozasok az Interneten.
A nepirtasra lazitas is remek.  Gondolom azt azzal kovette el, hogy
idezett az Encyclopedia Judaica-bol.  Ugy latom te valoban nem olvastad
NPA cikkeit, csak esetleg kozvetve, masok altal kiragadott idezetekbol.

>Ugy tunik azonban, hogy a feljelentes aljas indokbol tortent, es celja a
>vitapartner unfair "kikapcsolasa" volt.  Onmagaban a feljelentes egy
>legitim eszkoz, amivel elni kell tudni: erkolcsi es torveny altal eloirt
>kotelessegunk azokat feljelenteni, akikrol tudvan tudjuk hogy
>buncselekmenyt kovettek el.  Csakhogy NPA-nal, hangsulyozom: amennyire
>en meg tudom itelni, ilyesmi nem allt fenn.

Now you're talking!  Szerintem az, hogy munkaido alatt es privat celra
is hasznalta a vallalat gepeit, olyan vad, amivel szinte mindenki
vadolhato lenne.  Az NPA eseteben nyilvan egy "selective enforcement"
esete all fenn, amivel bizonyos burokratak eltek, ezzel takarva privat
agendajukat.

Pannon J.

In article >, R. Weisz > wrote:
>
>Ezek utan, ehes vagyok.

Meg ha az "I love you, man!"-nel folytatod is, akkor sem kapsz egy falatot
sem tolem.  It's too good to share! ;-)

Joe

KFT          - Macska áz úton - +3 - 1994 - Hungary
After Crying - Föld és ég     - +2 - 1995 - Hungary
No           - No more        - +1 - 1995 - Hungary

Last summer's holiday went to Bulgaria. Flew down, took the train
the train home. Arrived to Budapest in the morning, the train to
Warsaw didn't leave until seven in the evening. But Budapest is
one of those wonderful cities that always brings joy to return.
This time I spend most of my time on the Margit island, but of
course I chanced to buy a few CDs too.

Kft. - Macska áz úton - +3 - 1994 - Hungary
Through the years, I have acquired a handful of Hungarian albums.
All are fairly decent, but none of them is really hot. This far
that is. Kft's "Macskz áz úton" is the first album I have heard
from Hungary that reaches above the nice-to-have level, and earns
a rating of "recommendable".
  It starts off with "Elmúltak az ünnepek" which is a catchy guitar-
piano rocker in "new-wave" style. The singing is a bit distracting,
but the fine collaboration between the instruments compensates for
that. Strangely the vocals later on appears as a strong part on
this album, so this may be intentional.
  Next is "Budapesti anzix" which is quite atonal with tensed
vocals. There's something.. hm, could that be Tuxedo Moon over it?
But I should immediately add that this song is quite singular in
its style.
  "A vonat" is a ballad with dramatic singing, that works quite well.
"Telefon" is a short play with a guitar mimicking a telephone. "Tea" 
is a gentle melodic pop song, less of a novlety, but very palatable.
  And it continues in this way. Changing in styles, while sticking to
a common concept of a four-piece guitar-piano/keyboards-bass-drums
playing in novelty style. A bit pretentious in places but they don't
go too far. So you get both variation and consistency with definitely
is a positive characteristic. They have ambition to play more than just
simple rock'n'roll and they have a good sense of melodies, and all
this very commendable. Now I have one more reason to go back to
Budapest!
  (In case anyone wonders, I should add that Kft is an abbreviaton,
which stands for Korlátolt Felelö´sségü Társasá´g (=~ "Soceity with
constrained responsibility), but I'm using Kft, since Kft is a
common Hungarian expression, denoting a certain form of company.


After Crying - Föld és ég - +2 - 1995 - Hungary
Keith Emerson is alive! And not only by himself, but also thanks
to the Hungarian keyboard players Csaba Vedres and Balász Winkler.
The first two tracks on this CD are called "Manticore érkezése".
Parts I is a typical Emerson piano piece, while the other has a
typcial Emerson (electric) organ and a definite ELP feel to the
overall arrangement. And they are not alone, pieces like "Rondo"
and "Cisz-dór koncertetüd" displays the same piano-based rock
instrumentals you know from ELP. 
  Mind you, although I have seldom heard such a faithful clone of
anything, this is not bad. Keith Emerson is a good piano player, 
and these guys stand up to him very well.
  And in fairness, After Crying have other elements too. "Zene
Gitárra" is solo number for acoustic guitar against a background
of birdsong, and has absolutely no resemblence of Greg Lake. (But
the drummer's opening to "Rondo" is very Palmer-esque.) Another
element is that they do a lot of harmony singing, with four of
the six members taking vocals. "Leltár" and "Enigma" are almost
exclusive built on this, and again, there is not much ELP over
these numbers.
  "Puer natus in Betlehem" is instrumental and has a trumpet melody
over a synthesizer background. "Bár éjszaka van" has a poem recited
over an almost ambient background - and this is a fairly long track, 
seven minutes.
  So it is quite a mixture. The two tracks I haven't mentioned this
far, "Júdás" and "Kétezer év" are two long tracks of typical symphonic
rock, but with no particular ELP cloning, although still a lot of
piano in them. Actually, "Júdás" which has very good harmonies, is
the best track on the album. To wit: I must hasten to add that overall
After Crying is free from the overload pretentiousness with curtains
of synthesizers, but the sound picture is crisp and clear. The fact
that they use trumpet, oboe and flute is also a plus.
  To sum up: this is a very-nice-to-have album, +2 on the rating
scale. The band does their thing well, but are not overly original.
Still, if you are a die-hard fan of "progressive" music, this is
definitely one for you.

No - No more - +1 - 1995 - Hungary
It opens with "A folyónál" which has a good guitar riff and a nice
keyboard chords in the background, and the singer puts on a slightly
epic melody. It's quite OK, but you have heard this new-wave style
before. Next song opens with an acoustic guitar, and again the key-
boards are in the background of this softer piece. The third song,
"Húsz évvel késö´bb" has a really mean guitar, but I can't hear any 
keyboards.
  There are 16 songs on this CD, so I'm not going to describe them
all. But the above serves to reflect what I guess is the setting of
this band (there is no credits list) singer/bassist/drummer/guitarist
with the guitarist adding keyboards when he feels like.
  The style is basically what I would call boggie-rock. That is, you
can imagine leather clothing and hairy chests, but their chorus lines
are too poppy for them to qualify as hard rock. The songs vary from
slower songs (whereof some verging on power ballads, one of the most
dreadful concept there is in the rock business) to quicker ones.
It is not always cliché-ridden, but there are two songs after each
other where the singer shouts "Guitar!" just before the solo. I don't
know, but somehow I think I benefit from not understanding the words.
  The guitar is always in focus, except for two songs, which also are
the two of the more interesting ones. "Várok fenylö' éjszakákra" puts 
the spot on the drums, and the guitar plays some funky lines in the 
background. While being different, it still fits in with the rest. But 
the other one, "Titkos napló", is definitely the odd one out. It has 
a spoken verse over suggestive backing with keyboards and bass and
virtually no guitar (that's why I believe the guitarist to be the
keyboard player). It is also the second longest track (save the ballad
"Hívlak"). 
  In a way, it's a pity they didn't try more "daring" songs like that; 
that would have given more variety. As it stands, this is a nice-to-have
album, but not more than so.


--


======

The (-5, +5) scale explained:

+5 - Essential.                    0 - Neither good or bad.
+4 - Important.                   -1 - In some way irritating.
+3 - Recommendable *or*           -2 - Weak, but maybe with some good moments.
     Extremely nice-to-have.      -3 - Too bad to be in my collection.
+2 - Very nice-to-have.           -4 - Real bad, crap.
+1 - Nice-to-have.                -5 - Killing Joke's "Fire Dances".

The higher ratings are only available for albums which are "innovative"
or "novelties" in some way. Albums which are not, can get no better than 
+3, no matter how much I like them.



-- 
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, 
De klant heeft altijd recht - Nederländskt ordsprĺk.

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