I am truly sorry, I thought that was the traditional thing to do. (To
copy previous correspondence) The idea was to compare police
harassment with US/UK similar practices - taken as examples to follow
for a "fledgeling democracy". At least I try to be short! Eva Durant

> subjects of your otherwise excellent postings.
>
> I'm hungry to read everything from your keyboard but I can not hide my above

> storage!
>
> Regards,  Gabor  (No hard feelings!)

SALOM,
Ha valaki ismer engem, vagy meg akar ismerni szivesen varom a valaszt.
Contact me by my personal address at my company by mailing to :
           ( ECI Telecom Ltd. )
Bye

I apologise for copying past messages, I thought it was a
custom. Also helps me as I forget what I'm anwering and what I've
written before. I thought the US/UK police harassment messages
illustrated that the democracies the fledgling Hungarian lot
supposed to follow are not as perfect as some people believe.
I do my best to be AShortAP! Eva Durant

If everyone will pardon me for butting in (it's a listowner prerogative,
and I don't do it _too_ often),

could I suggest that everyone who uses the "include message in reply"
function in their responses to list postings consider editing out all
but the most telling quotations, (in my editor, at least, this is pretty
simple and can be done line-by-line or by marking and cutting blocks).

That way you can combine the best of both worlds:  the Socratic dialectical
aspect of this medium, which is so much fun sometimes, and the shorter
length and avoidance of deja vu that we lose if you quote the _entire_
message to which you are responding.

Sincerely,

Hugh Agnew

Laszlo Juszt wrote an article about two new ministers, Gyorgy Keleti,
minister of defense, and Gabor Kuncze, minister of the interior, in the *168
ora.* It is interesting to compare the appropriate passages on Keleti in this
article with an interview conducted with him a couple of months ago by Andras
Lindner and Zoltan Horvath (HVG, May 21, 1994). The interview in HVG is
preceded by a short bio. According to the biography, his father had been a
printer before 1945, when he joined the party. Between 1953 and 1956 served
as a party apparatchik. Between 1956 and 1959 he was Hungary's ambassador to
Bucharest. Keleti himself got himself into some hot water as a high school
student and was expelled from all high schools of Hungary. However, somehow
he managed to matriculate in 1964 and was accepted at the Mate Zalka Military
Academy. After graduating in 1969 he served in the army and in 1971 he became
KISZ secretary in Vac. In 1973 he goes back to the military academy and
received a new degree in the department of political work. In 1977 he began
working for the Ministry of Defense--by the end of the 1980s he is heading
the ministry's press office. In 1989 he becomes spokesman for the ministry.
After the Antall government comes into power he remained at his job until
April 1992 when he resigns and leaves the ministry. His wife works for the
army. They live in army housing for officers in Buda.

The biographical part of the *168 ora* article is much shorter. It does not
at all cover the father's career and begins with 1965 when Keleti joins the
army. It talks about graduating from the military academy with a diploma in
engineer and communications but skips his return to the academy for a second
degree in political work. It mentions the fact that he was the spokesman for
the ministry in the 1980s. It covers his stay at the ministry after the 1990
elections but "after the memorable Raffay's `wheel-loosening uproar' he was
no longer willing to stay. He got up; they made him get up? If Lajos Fu2r is
just a little bit more farsighted he does not discharge him from the
ministry." Because of the colloquialisms I am enclosing the original: "Az
emlekezetes Raffay-fele `kareklazitasos balhe1t' mar nem volt hajlando
elvinni. Felallt vagy felallitottak? Ha Fur Lajos egy kicsit is elorelato,
nem rakja ki a miniszteriumbol." Another example of questionable journalistic
practices. The most charitable thing one can say about it that it is an
ambiguous and misleading description of Keleti's departure from the ministry.
Eva Balogh

>The coalition agreement specifies, in excruciating detail, the types of
>major issues where the Socialists cannot make unilateral decisions
>without Kuncze's countersignature.  This is one of the supposed checks
>and balances that the SZDSZ insisted on as the price of their entering
>the coalition.  Was this procedure followed here?  I don't know.  Is this
>how things are supposed to work from now on?  Horn will make the decisions
>and the SZDSZ will rationalize them and apologize for them?  Was Kuncze
>consulted?

asked Gabor Fencsik in connection with the appointment of the new media
leaders. According to the *168 ora* (July 26, 1994) Kuncze was not consulted.
Eva Balogh

DATE=8/1/94
TYPE=BACKGROUND REPORT
NUMBER=5-17850
TITLE=POST-COMMUNIST POPULATION DANGERS
BYLINE= ED WARNER
DATELINE= WASHINGTON
CONTENT=
VOICED AT:

INTRO:  IN A RECENT MAGAZINE ARTICLE, AN AMERICAN POPULATION
EXPERT PAINTS AN ALARMING PICTURE OF DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGE IN THE
FORMER COMMUNIST NATIONS OF THE SOVIET BLOC: BIRTH RATES ARE
SHARPLY DOWN, DEATH RATES EQUALLY UP. V-O-A'S ED WARNER REPORTS
ON THE ARTICLE, ALONG WITH COMMENTS BY A LEADING DEMOGRAPHER.

TEXT:  DEMOGRAPHIC TRENDS IN THE FORMER SOVIET BLOC WERE BAD
ENOUGH, BUT THEY ARE FAR WORSE IN THE POST-COMMUNIST ERA. THAT IS
THE FINDING OF NICHOLAS EBERSTADT IN AN ARTICLE IN "THE NATIONAL
INTEREST" MAGAZINE.

MR. EBERSTADT -- A RESEARCHER AT THE HARVARD CENTER FOR
POPULATION AND DEVELOPMENT STUDIES -- WRITES THAT BIRTH RATES IN
RUSSIA HAVE FALLEN NEARLY 40 PERCENT SINCE 1989, AND DEATH RATES
HAVE INCREASED ALMOST AS MUCH.  SIMILAR TRENDS PREVAIL IN OTHER
PARTS OF THE FORMER SOVIET EMPIRE, INCLUDING EASTERN EUROPE.

MR. EBERSTADT WRITES THAT THESE ALARMING CHANGES DO  NOT  SEEM
TIED TO ANY PARTICULAR POLITICAL OR ECONOMIC SYSTEM OR POLICIES.
IT IS  NOT  SUPRISING, HE SAYS, THAT DEATH RATES HAVE RISEN IN
RUSSIA, WHERE THE MEDICAL SYSTEM HAS BROKEN DOWN, AND SOME
DISEASES ARE OUT OF CONTROL.  BUT IT IS STARTLING IN EAST
GERMANY, WHERE UNIFICATION HAS LED TO MUCH BETTER CONDITIONS IN
GENERAL.

NOTING THE FREQUENT CAUSES OF DEATH IN THESE COUNTRIES - HEART
DISEASE, INJURY, ALCOHOLISM - MR. EBERSTADT BELIEVES EXTREME
SOCIAL STRESS IS LARGELY RESPONSIBLE. HE MINIMIZES THE ROLE OF
THE DEGRADED ENVIRONMENT.

HERE, ANOTHER DEMOGRAPHER, MURRAY FESHBACH, TAKES ISSUE WITH HIM.
MR. FESHBACH -- WHO HAS SPENT MUCH TIME IN RUSSIA AND WRITTEN
EXTENSIVELY ON ITS PROBLEMS -- THINKS ENVIRONMENTAL POLUUTION IS
MORE OF A FACTOR THAN SOCIAL STRESS:

                              // FESHBACH ACT //

         THERE ARE INDIVIDUAL LOCATIONS WHERE ENVIRONMENTAL
         FACTORS PLAY AN ENORMOUS ROLE, PERHAPS AS MUCH AS 50,
         60, 70 PERCENT.  IT'S PARTLY ECONOMIC BECAUSE THEY CAN'T
         AFFORD TO DO ALL THE PROPER POLLUTION ABATEMENT
         PROCEDURES, TO GET RID OF RADIO ACTIVITY, TO GET RID OF
         GROUNDWATER CONTAMINATION PARTLY LEFT OVER WHEN THE
         SOVIETS WERE IN SOME OF THESE EAST EUROPEAN COUNTRIES,
         AS WELL AS IN THE FORMER SOVIET UNION ITSELF, WHERE THE
         LEGACY OF THE PAST IS VERY HIGH AND VERY COSTLY AND
         IMPOSSIBLE TO RECTIFY IN A VERY SHORT ORDER.

                                    // END ACT //

MR. FESHBACH SAYS THE DEATH RATE -- ESPECIALLY INFANT MORTALITY
--  MAY BE EVEN HIGHER THAN MR. EBERSTADT ESTIMATES SINCE DEATHS
IN SOME AREAS OF RUSSIA ARE  NOT  REPORTED. HE NOTES OTHER
EFFECTS OF A RISING DEATH RATE:

                               // FESHBACH ACT //

         IT MEANS THAT PEOPLE ARE ILL BEFORE THEY PASS AWAY. IT
         MEANS ALSO, THEREFORE, IT AFFECTS PRODUCTIVITY, OUTPUT
         PER WORKER. AND SO IT AFFECTS THE QUALITY OF PERSONNEL
         AVAILABLE FOR THE MILITARY. IT AFFECTS THE QUESTION OF
         PLANNING, OF INVESTMENT FOR SCHOOLS AND MANY OTHER
         FACTORS IN THE WHOLE SOCIETY AND THE WHOLE ECONOMY.  SO
         IT'S  NOT  JUST DEMOGRAPHY QUA (AS) DEMOGRAPHY. IT'S A
         QUESTION OF ITS INTERPLAY WITH OTHER ASPECTS OF THE
         COUNTRY.

                                     // END ACT //

MR. FESHBACH AGREES WITH NICHOLAS EBERSTADT THAT THESE POPULATION
TRENDS WILL CONTINUE INTO THE DISTANT FUTURE.  MR. EBERSTADT
WORRIES THEY MAY IMPEDE THE TREND TO DEMOCRACY IN THE FORMER
COMMUNIST COUNTRIES.   (SIGNED)

NEB/EW/BG
01-Aug-94 4:58 PM EDT (2058 UTC)
NNNN

Source: Voice of America

> ---------------------------------------------------------
Use of the NEB Wire

The contents of the NEB wire are not copyrighted.  However, if you publish or
rebroadcast any of these reports, please be certain to use the latest version
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materials that are published or rebroadcast should be used in their entirety.
Please credit the Voice of America as the source in any subsequent
dissemination.

Gabor Ellman is quite right. How the American police behave has absolutely
nothing to do with Horn or his attitude toward democracy. I maybe the culprit
in leading the discussion astray because it was I, who, in connection with a
discussion of democratic impulses or lack of therein, mentioned the Hungarian
police's intrusive habit of stopping cars without any reason. As it turned
out I was wrong, at least as far as the law is concerned, about the whole
matter. That is, the police in the United States can also stop cars without
probable cause. However, I must say that although I have been driving for
over thirty years, I have never been stopped either in Canada or the United
States. The few times I was, I must admit I was speeding. In Hungary, on the
other hand, it happens right and left, as Marc Nasdor's contribution attests:
"We were at the Balaton for three weeks, and whenever we drove at night, we
would invariably get stopped and have our papers checked," says Marc. Yes,
exactly. (By the way, I used to fake total ignorance of the Hungarian
language!) Our dear Hungarian brethren are quite accustomed to this intrusive
behavior and don't find it as irritating as I do. I also wonder whether if
the car had a foreign license plate they would feel as free to stop the
driver as in the case of Hungarian cars. My huntch is that they wouldn't. For
example, the few times I was leasing a car abroad and was driving a car with
either a French or a German license plate I was not stopped once.

One more thing. In the United States one rarely ever sees a soldier. They
seem to hang out at airports on their way home on leave, and here and there
you can see National Guard units driving a whole slew of trucks along the
highway on their way to their silly weekend exercises. But otherwise, you
just don't see a man or woman in uniform. Seeing all those uniforms in
Hungary gives me a feeling of unease. Eva Balogh