Please note that the Hungarian news hierarchy hun.* is available at
several USA newsfeeds now - perhaps you could request Spry to carry if
they don't yet; also you can get them directly from news.iif.hu or
news.sztaki.hu (you'd need a reader program that you can point to a remote
NNTP server - eg. Netscape could do it).

On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, aheringer wrote:
> In article >,  says...
> >van olyan news ahol magyarul irnak?

> Van. A soc.culture.magyar.  Ott is van angol levelezes, de sokkal
> kevesebb.  Agnes
--
 Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq >
Please note that the above is my new preferred address!
 My primary FAQ archive is presently at <ftp://ftp.alt.net/hungarian/>
       * I WILL NEVER, EVER, BUY SPAMVERTISED PRODUCTS! *

I was a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
(Utolso Napok Szentjei Jezus Krisztus Eghyhaza -- a bad translation in my
opinion).  I was in Budapest for two years, half of them on Balassi Balint
Utca, right across the street from the Feher Haz.  I watched our church
grow from ten members to over a hundred, ninety percent of the growth
occurring under Kadar and Grossz Karoly.  Of course, the growth has been
far more dramatic since the fall of the Berlin Wall, etc.  In the period,
though, I studied as many of the other churches as I could, trying to
establish what was going to cause me to wind up in prison and what was
going to be okay.  It was a near thing, but we accomplished what we were
sent to do.

More, if you need it.


Kristof

Eva B: At 08:18 PM 18/04/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>        Agnes, I remember that discussion and even remember that at that
>time I was on the other side, but now that you put it in a different
>way--that is, comparing it to the United States--I must agree with you. As
>you know I spent nine years in Canada after 1956 and I must admit that I
>didn't like it very much. Canadians in Ottawa, which basically meant
>descendents of Scotch-Irish immigrants from the nineteenth-century, were
>terribly buttoned-up, terribly self-satisfied, terribly isolated people who
>had a certain ideal human being in mind: a Scotch-Irish Canadian from
>Ottawa.
[...]
During the late 60's to late 70's Ottawa ended up enjoying a tremendous
influx of "transients" by way of corporate and government induced shuffles.
 This might explain the difference between our experiences.  I found
Ottawa's residents a most open/friendly bunch during that timeframe.  Made
it a great city to live in.

> If you were any different from that ideal there had to be something wrong
with you.
[...]
IMHO, this is a timeless statement, relating only to "mentality".  A
mentality I don't foresee disappearing to quickly.  I am however pleased to
see that a new trend is very slowly on the rise.  The upcoming generation
appears to show signs of better tolerating "different" if not advocating
the concept.

I enjoyed reading the rest of your post also, and reminded me of days gone
by:-) along with a thought I used to foster.  When I first came to Canada,
I was always regarded as a "Hungarian" leading to feelings of not yet being
accepted.  Many years later, I returned to Hungary where low and behold, I
was regarded as a "Canadian" leading to feelings of no longer belonging.
It was like floating in mid air between two worlds, with no place to call
home.  Eventually I found my comfort zone  When I am here, "itthon" vagyok,
es "otthon" becomes Hungary.  When I am there, ditto.  Ironically enough,
like you described in your post, I sure do hang on with dear life to that
Hungarian temperament and all it's associated +'s and -'s.

>        I am happy to see that most Hungarians on this list seem to love
>Canada. They obviously blent in nicely and joined the chorus of
>anti-Americanism.
[...]
Now Eva .... be fair ha?  'Sides, it's not like you to generalize to this
degree!  As much as I do like living in Canada I'll be the first to admit
(and have in many posts) to it's ton of problems, not unlike the States.
Nor am I a part of any anti-Americanism chorus.  But know what?  I have
this bizarre theory, that if one could successfully combine all the
strengths of the States, with all the strengths of Canada, the weaknesses
of the combined two would likely become minute.  (Now ... before you go
killing yourself laughing, stop and really think about this bizarre concept
for a minute .....)  And, by all means, have a field day with it
 ....:-)))))). (Not to mention the rest of ya)

Good night!
Aniko

At 12:48 AM 4/20/97 GMT, Kristof wrote:

>I was a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
>(Utolso Napok Szentjei Jezus Krisztus Eghyhaza -- a bad translation in my
>opinion).  I was in Budapest for two years, half of them on Balassi Balint
>Utca, right across the street from the Feher Haz.  I watched our church
>grow from ten members to over a hundred, ninety percent of the growth
>occurring under Kadar and Grossz Karoly.  Of course, the growth has been
>far more dramatic since the fall of the Berlin Wall, etc.  In the period,
>though, I studied as many of the other churches as I could, trying to
>establish what was going to cause me to wind up in prison and what was
>going to be okay.  It was a near thing, but we accomplished what we were
>sent to do.
>
>More, if you need it.

No.  No more please.

The growth of western (read - American) churches and fast-food joints in
Hungary are as welcome as cold sores before an important date.

Joe Szalai
Joseph G. Szalai
University of Waterloo
Dana Porter Library

At 08:53 PM 4/19/97 GMT, you wrote:
>>        Just to give you an example. The following story had to take
>place
>>sometime in the beginning of the 1960s. The first time ever the
>coronation
>>of the pope was shown on television. I am not a Catholic, I am not
>>religious, but I thought it very exciting that we will be able to see
>the
>>actual coronation on tv. I said so in the living room of a friend of
>mine's
>>family. Reaction: the mother told me that now that I am a Canadian
>citizen I
>>am supposed to behave like a Canadian. I.e., I am not supposed to show
>any
>>excitement whatsoever at such things.
>
>Well, Eva, it is not this bad - she must have been a very stupid woman
>and this is really an isolated case.  However, I admit I got into trouble
>at the work place many times with my straightforward manners.  I could
>never learn to act the English way.  Yes, I love Canada.  Canada was good
>to us.  My children and - especially - my grandchildren are fully
>integrated.  And with my particular situation of a sick husband, that I
>mentioned before, I am happy that I live here and not in the US.
>
>Agnes
>
>Hurrah to you Agnes.One example and from that educated person draws
consequences.
Also proud to be Canadian.This country gave me freedom,no discrimination,and
valuable lessons.
Andy.
Andy Kozma

Toronto.

At 02:27 AM 4/20/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Eva B: At 08:18 PM 18/04/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>        Agnes, I remember that discussion and even remember that at that
>>time I was on the other side, but now that you put it in a different
>>way--that is, comparing it to the United States--I must agree with you. As
>>you know I spent nine years in Canada after 1956 and I must admit that I
>>didn't like it very much. Canadians in Ottawa, which basically meant
>>descendents of Scotch-Irish immigrants from the nineteenth-century, were
>>terribly buttoned-up, terribly self-satisfied, terribly isolated people who
>>had a certain ideal human being in mind: a Scotch-Irish Canadian from
>>Ottawa.
>[...]
>During the late 60's to late 70's Ottawa ended up enjoying a tremendous
>influx of "transients" by way of corporate and government induced shuffles.
> This might explain the difference between our experiences.  I found
>Ottawa's residents a most open/friendly bunch during that timeframe.  Made
>it a great city to live in.
>
>> If you were any different from that ideal there had to be something wrong
>with you.
>[...]
>IMHO, this is a timeless statement, relating only to "mentality".  A
>mentality I don't foresee disappearing to quickly.  I am however pleased to
>see that a new trend is very slowly on the rise.  The upcoming generation
>appears to show signs of better tolerating "different" if not advocating
>the concept.
>
>I enjoyed reading the rest of your post also, and reminded me of days gone
>by:-) along with a thought I used to foster.  When I first came to Canada,
>I was always regarded as a "Hungarian" leading to feelings of not yet being
>accepted.  Many years later, I returned to Hungary where low and behold, I
>was regarded as a "Canadian" leading to feelings of no longer belonging.
>It was like floating in mid air between two worlds, with no place to call
>home.  Eventually I found my comfort zone  When I am here, "itthon" vagyok,
>es "otthon" becomes Hungary.  When I am there, ditto.  Ironically enough,
>like you described in your post, I sure do hang on with dear life to that
>Hungarian temperament and all it's associated +'s and -'s.
>
>>        I am happy to see that most Hungarians on this list seem to love
>>Canada. They obviously blent in nicely and joined the chorus of
>>anti-Americanism.
>[...]
>Now Eva .... be fair ha?  'Sides, it's not like you to generalize to this
>degree!  As much as I do like living in Canada I'll be the first to admit
>(and have in many posts) to it's ton of problems, not unlike the States.
>Nor am I a part of any anti-Americanism chorus.  But know what?  I have
>this bizarre theory, that if one could successfully combine all the
>strengths of the States, with all the strengths of Canada, the weaknesses
>of the combined two would likely become minute.  (Now ... before you go
>killing yourself laughing, stop and really think about this bizarre concept
>for a minute .....)  And, by all means, have a field day with it
>....:-)))))). (Not to mention the rest of ya)
>
>Good night!
>Aniko
>
>Aniko:there are a couple of statements I object to.
1.Canada has a ton of problems,not unlike the States.Please clarifie what
you ment by that?
2.Would you like to have one country,called US.?
Andy.
Andy Kozma

Toronto.

Dear Colleagues,

Ted Lungu is the founder of the Romanian Lobby. As you can see it from the
attached, he once again joined us in our common quest for and support of
liberty, collective human rights and cultural autonomy..

Best regards: Bela Liptak
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Date:   97-04-20 14:46:20 EDT
From:    (Ted Lungu)
To:     



On Sat, 19 Apr 1997  wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Next week the Dalai Lama is coming to Washington to ask for the support of
> President Clinton and it is not clear, if the president will receive him.
If
> you agree with the attached letter, please also mail one of your own,
asking
> him to do so.
>
Done it!

Best regards,
Ted Lungu

At 02:27 AM 4/20/97 -0300, Anikor wrote:

>Now Eva .... be fair ha?  'Sides, it's not like you to generalize to this
>degree!  As much as I do like living in Canada I'll be the first to admit
>(and have in many posts) to it's ton of problems, not unlike the States.
>Nor am I a part of any anti-Americanism chorus.

        I am sorry. You are right. You are not of them, but I can think of a
couple! Best, Eva

The discussion about linguistic ability and music is an interesting
one and I am convinced that by and large it holds true. At the same time I
know someone who is musically very talented and absolutely untalented in
learning languages. That is, she passed all her language examinations for
her Ph.D. but can't mutter out one word in any of them.
        At the same time I am not talented musically. That is, I love
music--strictly classical music, by the way--but I am untalented. I studied
the piano for five years, yet today I would have difficulty in playing
"Boci, boci, tarka" on the piano. Yet, I managed to learn English relatively
well. Just this afternoon I was at a dog show and someone came up to me and
asked me about basset hounds. He did notice that I had an accent, but he
thought that I was English. No, I said, I was Hungarian. He answered: "But
you must have been here for a long time." Which, of course, is true. By the
way, I was already 20 when I arrived without knowing a word of English which
may have been a blessing.
        Eva

In view of the overwhelming evidence against my earlier hypothesis, I now
officially
declare Hungarian an easy language to learn.

I will accept that anybody can learn it flawlessly and that my poor mother's
brain must have ankylosed after learning 9 or 10 languages perfectly, because
after 50 years of speaking Hungarian almost exclusively, until the day she
died,
she still said I LE, instead of u"ly le, and hije, instead hu"lye (although
she spoke a
German that was instantly identified as Viennese, therefore the u" sound
was not alien to
her ears).  She also forever mixed o"n, maga, te...and never learned to say
"ne
tessek haragudni"  or "hogy tetszik lenni" at the appropriate times or
circumstances.

I made an oblique reference to the CIA as a source of agreement that Hungarian
is impossible to learn. It appears that, according to a friend in Los
Angeles, a
language school existed somewhere near Monterey, California that trained
prospective operatives for field work. According to this friend, he was
approached
as a potential recruit back in the 60s because, according to him,
non-natives could
not be taught Hungarian, and natives could not be trusted. He, a young
emigrant,
like many of us at that time, was violently anti-communist, therefore
possessing
a critical requirement for the job.

But, seriously this time, I think that Hungarian is an easy language, but
it is
UNLIKE any other, hence the perception that it is difficult. The
pronunciation is
murder and you have to have a fine ear for languages to hear the sounds and a
fine brain to be able to replicate them. I take my hat off to anyone who
masters it
and the winner of the bet has a standing invitation to a fantastic chicken
paprikas
dinner (complete with freshly made galuska/nokedli, and ugorka salata) cooked
by my lovely (Southern) American wife, who, after 17 years of daily practice,
still cannot say our last name properly. She is a piano teacher, BTW. Oh, I
almost forgot: the dinner includes also some Badacsonyi Szurkebarat made
before
1989 and Tokaji Aszu with dessert.

As far as how this discussion has gone... I am DELIGHTED with the response.
We
are becoming a VERY pleasant little community here, aren't we?

Regards to all,


Ro'zsa Bandi


P.S. Please r-r-r-r-o-l the R and it's a long O... a little bit like in
AMBROSIA...'cept
that the 'a' at the end is closed and the lips are rounded.

Nincsen ro'zsa to"vis ne'lku"l


:-) :-)

Dear Colleagues,

The attached seems like a good opportunity to repeat our effort in requesting
Hungarian language masses for the csangos in Rome.

Best regards: Bela Liptak

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Rumanian minister invites Pope to visit
    ROME, April 17 (Reuter) - Romanian Foreign Minister Adrian Severin said
on
Thursday he hoped Pope John Paul would visit his country and help bring an
end
to a dispute between the Orthodox Church and minority Byzantine Rite
Catholics.
     "The Pope has expressed for a long time the desire to visit Romania and
I
hope that this can happen as soon as possible," Severin told reporters.
Severin,
who delivered an invitation to John Paul on Thursday to make a first visit by
a
Pope to Romania, added he hoped a such trip would "help religious
reconciliation
in the country."  Leaders of Romania's Orthodox Church are against a visit by
the 76-year-old Pontiff taking place before progress is made in settling a
longstanding dispute with the Byzantine Rite Catholics.
     Liviu Stoina, adviser to the Orthodox Patriarch's office, said in
Bucharest
on Wednesday: "We don't oppose a visit by His Holiness the Pope. But for the
visit to take place, we need peace and reconciliation with (the Byzantine
Rite)
church."  Only about 1.2 million Romanians, or some five percent of the
population, are Latin-rite Roman Catholics. A further 223,000, mainly in the
central Transylvania region, are Byzantine Rite Catholics who worship in an
eastern orthodox liturgy but are in unity with Rome.  Byzantine Rite
Catholics
were banned under Romania's communist regime and their churches were
confiscated.  The Byzantine Rite Catholic Church was re-legalised in 1989
after
the fall of communism but the government has yet to tackle the thorny issue
of
returning 2,500 churches and other assets.
 -----------------------------------------------