Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX SCM 315
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-04-22
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Magyar Napi Elokeszuletek Chicagoban (mind)  76 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Transilvania was,is and would be romanian province (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Transilvania was,is and would be romanian province (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
4 Locomotiv GT (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
5 Hungarian in Slovakia (mind)  285 sor     (cikkei)
6 Reinforcement From Anna (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Racism on the WWW (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: About Transilvania belonging to Hungary (mind)  34 sor     (cikkei)
9 Goober Swallows the American Dream (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
10 Anna Smith s Keelfiles?????????? (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
11 Brigitta Doesn t Read Anna s Email (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Transilvania was,is and would be romanian province (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: The Monkish Purity of Goober Barfsai (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Magyar Napi Elokeszuletek Chicagoban (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Magyar Napi Elokeszuletek Chicagoban
> --------------------------------------------------------------
     A Fiatal Americai Magyarok Szervezete (AAYH) kezdemenyezesere, a
Chicagoi szervezetek es intezmenyek kepviseloi mult ev decembereben
elhataroztak, hogy megszerveznek egy " Magyar Napot". Ezen az Unnepsegen
fognak majd megemlekezni Magyarorszag fennallasanak 1100 Eves
Evfordulojarol.
     A tervek szerint, a rendezok a Chicagoi belvarosban levo State of
Illinois epuletben,Illinois allam kormanyzojanak vednoksege alatt, Junius
15-en delutan 4 oratol musor csokorral, kiallitassal es videokal varjak az
itteni Magyarsagot es barataikat.
     A nap kozponti esemenye a masfel oras unnepi musor lesz, amelyen
ismert
koltoink, iroink, enek es zeneszerzoink alkotasait szolaltatjak meg. A
honfoglalas, kiralyink (kozepkor), 1848, a szazadfordulo (Trianon),
a ket vilaghaboru, a kommunizmus, 1956, a kortarsi evek es vegezetul a
jovobe
vetett remeny lesz a musor temaja.
     A  kiallitas is fontos alkoto resze lesz ennek az Unnepelynek.
Intezmenyeinknek, szervezeteinknek,
tajcsoportjainknak es meg vallalatainknak is alkalmuk lesz bemutatkozni. A
tervek szerint, az erdeklodok
asztalokat allithatnak fel, es bemutathatjak munkajuk targyi, kepi stb.
dokumentumait. Uzletembereink figyelmebe
ajanljuk a kiallitas nyujtotta lehetosegeket.
     Az Unnepi musor utan a vendegek asztalokhoz ulhetnek es a nap
hatralevo
reszet beszelgetessel, regi baratsagot felujitasaval vagy uj baratsagok
kotesevel tolthetik el. Etelrol es udito italokrol a "Paprikash" vendeglo
gondoskodik.
     Az elokeszuletek tobb vonalon is megkezdodtek. A tanccsoport Nemet
Eva
es Karoly vezetesevel mar hetek ota keszul. A szereplok is probaznak.
Fekete
Gyula zeneszerzo vezetesevel a zenei szamok kezdenek kialakulni,
es a Chicagoi Magyar Baptista Gyulekezet kivalo korusa is bekapcsolodott
az
elokeszuletek munkajaba.
     Ki kell hangsulyozni azt, hogy az Unnepi megemlekezes
elokeszuleteiben
az idosebb korosztalyhoz tartozo
egyenek nagy csoportja csatlakozott az ifjusaghoz, magukra vallalva
egy-egy
akcio levezeteset.
     Ennek a szep elkepzelesnek a sikere csak attol fugg, hogy mennyien
csatlakozunk a rendezokhoz mint 
munkatarsak es mennyien teszik magukeva a gondolatot, hogy Hazank 1100
Eves
szuletesnapja kiveteles alkalom
arra, hogy nemcsak magunknak, hanem masoknak is bemutassuk kepessegeinket.
A
tortenelmi viharokban
allandoan ujjaszuleto draga Anyafold csak egy van, "O a mienk,egyedul csak
O
a mienk," meg akkor is ha az 
elmult evtizedek folyaman es meg ma is, ketelyeink tamadnak "vezetoivel
szemben." Mi megis szeretni tudjuk!!
Ezen a szuletesnapon felre kell seperni a pesszimista erzeseket, es meg
kell
mutatni a vilagnak, hogy minden
feltetel nelkul tudjuk szeretni azt a foldet amit elso Kiralyunk az
Emberfia
Edesanyja oltalmaba ajanlotta.
     Ha valami modon reszese szeretne lenni ennek a megmozdulasnak es
tehetsegevel szivesen hozzajarulna
a megemlekezes szinvonalnak bisztositasahoz akkor ne varjon semmire sem. A
szervezok csak egy telefon
hivasra vannak ontol. Ha az Unnepi musorban szeretne kozremukodni, akkor
hivja Kremer Sandort a 708-932-9845
szamon. Ha a kialitas vagy az Unnepi musor koruli mas tevekenyseg erdekli,
akkor pedig Stetz Andreat hivja a
312-282-9265-os telefon szamon.

A viszontlatas remenyeben,

Kremer Sandor es a Szervezo Bizottsag
+ - Re: Transilvania was,is and would be romanian province (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tudor Dima > wrote:

>>Could you please cite some of these rights and liberties for me? I am just
>>very curious.

>Your question sounds very much like the ones asked by the "people's komissars"
:
>"Could you prove you're innocent ?"

Well, a much easier question is: "What rights are the Hungarians of
Romania asking for?"

Liviu Iordache
+ - Re: Transilvania was,is and would be romanian province (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I believe that the issue is why do we have to talk of the "rights of Hungarians
" in the first 
place?  If Romania is a truly democratic nation, as it would like the rest of t
he world to 
believe, there should not be any differentiation between the rights of the diff
erent people 
living on its territory?  Unless there truly is a difference, in the sense of "
some people are 
created equal but some are more equal than others" which happens to be what I p
ersonally believe.

IW

PS I truly hope and wish all Hungarians that Transylvania will not remain a "Ro
manian Province"
+ - Locomotiv GT (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Looking for Locomotiv Gt compact disc.Willing to trade or purchase.
E-mail for my list 
+ - Hungarian in Slovakia (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am a member of a listserv involving Roma. This was posted and I thought 
it may of interest to Hungarians:
#################################


From  Sun Apr 21 16:25:08 1996
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 10:37:38 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Hein van der Voort >
Subject: Linguistic human rights in Slovakia, please send protest (fwd)

The following message is from the "Endangered Languages" list and 
concerns the Hungarian language in Slovakia. This seems important to 
members of XXXXXXX as well, also because they give general information 
about the legal status of minority languages in Slovakia.

Peter Bakker
Instituut voor Algemene Taalwetenschap
Spuistraat 210 
1012 VT, Amsterdam


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 10:53:22 +1000
From: T.Matthew Ciolek >
To: 
Subject: Linguistic human rights, please send protest

--------------- forwarded message --------------

From: "Tove Skutnabb-Kangas" >
Organization:  Roskilde Universitetscenter
To: 
Date:          Wed, 17 Apr 1996 14:59:24 +0100


Dear Colleague,


 We the undersigned are writing to you to ask for your support in
protesting the  violations of the linguistic human rights of the
Hungarian national minority in Slovakia.

This letter contains (1) a short description of the situation in
Slovakia, (2) a model letter, (3) possible addresses to send the
model letter to, and (4) a list of additional information one can
get on email.


 (1) DESCRIPTION OF SITUATION

      Slovaks and Hungarians have lived together in today's
Southern Slovakia for a millennium. Today about 600,000
indigenous Hungarians live in Slovakia, constituting over 10% of
the country's population. They live in a compact group and in
over 400 towns and villages form a local majority. Since 1920
Hungarians have been a national minority in Slovakia. The rights
of this community have been guaranteed by the great powers at the
Paris Peace Treaty on 10 February 1947.
      Although minority rights before and during communism were
considerably limited, since 1989 Hungarians have been subjected
to increasigly aggressive oppression. Compared to communism, the
1990 law on the official language of Slovakia curbed the
minority's language rights considerably. Then in November 1995 a
new law on the state language of Slovakia (in force since 1
January 1996) was adopted which has further restricted minority
language rights, effectively banning the use of Hungarian from
almost all public domains. For instance, until this year
Hungarian could be used in oral official contact with local
governments where Hungarians constituted over 20% of the
population. The new law, in violation of paragraph 2.b of article
34 of the Slovak constitution, has outlawed the use of Hungarian
in all official contacts, forbidding, among other things, the use
of the mother tongue between a Hungarian physician and patient.
As of 1997, the law can be enforced by extremely severe fines,
which can wipe out existing Hungarian-language publications and
broadcasts. While the state language law drastically limits the
use of minority languages, the Slovak government has broken its
repeated promises to pass a law on minority language use.
      Currently Slovakia is gerrymandering the administrative
units to eliminate Hungarian majorities through redistricting.
The Slovak cabinet approved a draft law on "the protection of the
republic," which could stifle media criticism of the government
and jail citizens for "spreading false information abroad harming
the interests of the republic." A new education law is in
preparation which could easily destroy Hungarian-language
schools.
      Hungarians are denied the right of self-determination. The
Slovak government uses intimidation and totalitarian means to
force them to assimilate or become second-class citizens. They
are the victims of language-based national discrimination.



 (2) MODEL LETTER

 Enclosed is a model letter which you should modify to your
liking or just extract it from your email if you have little
time. We ask you

      - to print the letter on your university stationery
      - to include all your titles with your signature
      - to say if possible why you are personally concerned
      - to mail/fax the letter to the President and/or Prime
Minister of Slovakia and if possible also to others who might be
able to influence the matter
      - to send a copy of your letter/fax to Tove Skutnabb-Kangas
or Michael Clyne, whoever is closer to you (addresses below).


 MODEL LETTER


 Dear Prime Minister/President:

      I write to you to express my concern for the language
rights of the indigenous Hungarian minority in Slovakia. The Law
on the State Language of Slovakia passed on 15 November 1995
withdraws considerable linguistic human rights to minorities,
which they enjoyed before, during, and after communism - until
1996. I believe that the new law, which appears to contravene
various UN declarations, the European Charter for Minority and
Regional Languages and the 1990 CSCE Copenhagen Document, runs
counter to the present international tide of support for
bilingualism and recognition of linguistic human rights of
national and ethnic minorities.
      The historical record and current experience equally seem
to show that restrictive language legislation, rather than create
social harmony, easily leads to disharmony and antagonism between
various national communities in a state. Enjoyment of human
dignity and language rights is best achieved for citizens of a
state by making it possible for them to use the language of their
choice, rather than the language mandated by a law which is
enforced by severe fines. Such countries as Switzerland, Finland,
Australia, Norway or Luxembourg have shown that it is state-wide
promotion of linguistic tolerance that effectively creates social
harmony between various language communities. On the other hand,
the movement towards making English the official language of the
USA, which is cited as an example in justifying the Law on the
State Language of Slovakia, is condemned by the overwhelming
majority of members of the Linguistic Society of America and is
seen by many experts as a possible cause of future social
conflicts.
      I urge you to modify the State Language Law or complement
it with a minority language law restoring and safeguarding the
use of minority languages in Slovakia. I am convinced that the
primacy of Slovak in Slovakia can be maintained and ensured
without weakening the ethnic identity and curbing the linguistic
human rights of minorities in your country.


 (3) POSSIBLE ADDRESSES

 Please fax or mail your letter to the following addresses:


 Kancelaria presidenta SR
 Michal Kovac, President of the Slovak Republic
 Primacialne nam. 1.
 811 01 Bratislava
 Slovakia, Europe

 Fax: 42-7-531 70 67 (42 is the country code, 7 the Bratislava
area code)


 Urad vlady SR
 Vladimir Meciar, Prime Minister of the Slovak Republic
 Nam. Slobody 1
 813 70 Bratislava
 Slovakia, Europe

 Fax: 42-7-315 484


 We suggest that your letter also be sent to any others who you
think may be able to influence the situation. It seems to be a
good idea to send the letter to your own prime minister and
foreign minister, and also some members of the European
Parliament from your own country if your country is a member of
the EU.
      Please share this information with other colleagues. We
have sent this letter to several email-lists and individual
colleagues but the more researchers we reach the better.



 (4) ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AVAILABLE VIA EMAIL

      If you would like to have more background information, we
have compiled a package of articles which we consider relevant.
The authors of the articles are in no way involved and in many
cases we have not even been able to inform them or ask for their
permission to circulate their articles (we apologise for that).
The information package contains the following:

 Texts:

 1. The Slovak State Language Law (1995) (translation)

 2. Language Rights in Slovakia (LINGUIST List: Vol-7-167;
2/2/96)

 3. Proclamation of the Hungarians in Slovakia (3/15/96)

 4. Analysis: "The new Law on the State Language of Slovakia:
Deliberate Ambiguity" by Istvan Lanstyak

 5. Article: "English Only's Cousin: Slovak Only" by Miklos
Kontra (submitted to the journal Acta Linguistica Hungarica)


 OMRI Daily Digests:

 6. US criticises Slovak human rights record (3/7/96)

 7. Troubled Slovak-EU relations (2/28/96)

 8. Slovak parliament approves administrative reform (3/25/96)

 9. Slovakia approves draft law on "subversion" (3/12/96)


 Translated articles from the Hungarian press in Slovakia:

 10. They humiliate children (1/24/96)

 11. Helplessness in the nationality schools (1/26/96)

 12. A statement of the Hungarian Coalition (2/2/96)

 13. Nobody teaches a dog to meow or a cat to bark (2/15/96)

 14. Physician turns vigilant linguistic policeman (2/9/96)

 15. The language police goes to the churches (3/12/96)

If you would like to have one or several of these, please email
one of the following people and specify the number(s) of the
item(s) you would like to have:

Phil Benson, email 
Richard Benton, email 
Kea Kangas, email 
Robert Phillipson, email 
Mart Rannut, email 

Michael Clyne, email ; address Monash
University, Language and Society Centre, Menzies Building,
Clayton, Victoria 3168, Australia

Tove Skutnabb-Kangas, email ; address
University of Roskilde, 3.2.4, P.O.Box 260, DK-4000 Roskilde,
Denmark


Wishing that you can find the few minutes it takes to extract and
send the letter, we remain sincerely yours


Ulrich Ammon, Annamalai, John Baugh, Phil Benson, Richard Benton,
Birgit Brock-Utne, Chris Candlin, Kip Cates, J.K.Chambers,
Michael Clyne, David Corson, Teun van Dijk, Joshua Fishman,
Francois Grin, Hartmut Haberland, Rainer Enrique Hamel, Cees
Hamelink, Eduardo Hernandez-Chavez, Deirdre Jordan, Braj Kachru,
Yamuna Kachru,  Miklos Kontra, Cheris Kramarae, Willian Labov,
Leo van Lier, Angeline Martel, Sonia Nieto, Masaki Oda, Harold
Ormsby, Uldis Ozolins, Robert Phillipson, Dennis R.Preston, Mart
Rannut, Ivan A.Sag, Tove Skutnabb-Kangas, Peter Trudgill, Joan
Wink, Ruth Wodak.

Tove Skutnabb-Kangas, Roskilde University, Dept of Languages and
Culture, 3.2.4., PB 260, DK-4000 Roskilde, Denmark, phone 45-46-75 77
11/2740, fax 45-46-75 44 10, private: Troenninge Mose 3, DK-4420
Regstrup, Denmark, phone 45-53-46 44 12
email: 


---------------end of forwarded message --------------



-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Reinforcement From Anna (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Monday April 15, 1996, Anna Smith publicly announced:
:Now I'm going to take their advice (and there were many who I should've
:listened to I see) and ignore you. Children love negative reinforcement
:and you will get no further reinforcement from me. 

Then yesterday > Anna Smith wrote:
|Since this post had your name on it I read it---

So you determined that "their advice" wasn't worth shit and decided not to
ignore me. I think the message you are giving "them" by your disdain of
"their advice" is loud and clear. You will be left on your own now lipstick
chick. It is quite true that "Children love negative reinforcement" and
other children (let's call them chicktricks) love providing that
reinforcement.

Just think of it Anna,
turn the tap off
and, voila!
I run dry;
Arridland!

Chow chickie!

-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Re: Racism on the WWW (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Streit Roland > wrote:

>Hi all,

>I am making a study about racism on the world wide web. Currently, I am
>looking for URLs of sites that contain racist web-pages (nazi-sites,
>extreme nationalism etc).


>ps: I have posted this article on various soc.culture.* newsgroups. I
>therefore would like to apolopize if you encounter this posting several
>times.

What was the criteria you choose these newsgroups?

Mart
+ - Re: About Transilvania belonging to Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (George
Szaszvari) wrote:


> Further to this point, who on these two ngs believes that Transylvania
> belongs to the people of Transylvania and not to the politicians of 
> any particular nation-state? 
> 
> Were there not good periods in the history of Transylvania when it 
> flourished under it's own tutelage rather anyone else's? Is there,
> perhaps, a real case for Transylvanian autonomy? I'd just like to
> read some considered, non-partizan opinions on this thought.

The problem with an independant Transylvania is that it would be a step
for further balkanization of an already divided peninsula. There is a 
significant stability problem for small republics, especially in an area 
where big powers like to play their games against each other. An independant
Transylvania would be sandwiched between a rump Romania and a jealous Hungary.
Both countries would have little interest in a successful, democratic,
independant Transylvania. The Hungarians because it would be Romanian ruled,
the Romanians because it would serve as a constant reminder that we can
govern ourselves and be free. Both countries would serve their interests to
sabotage any true independance.

As for autonomy, I don't see this as viable either. The Hungarians would 
still be in the minority and feel miffed over this while there would be a 
tendency to lower the government monies that Transylvania receives while not
lowering the taxes they have to pay. 

DB

-- 
Romanian Political Pages now are available
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus
+ - Goober Swallows the American Dream (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Goober Barfsai wrote:
>One standard for you, one for the rest of the world? No wonder Canadians
>are so, so inferior to their great neighbor 

Brigitta Bali replied:
|Yes, America the Superior, squanders its youth by the tens of thousands in
|Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, etc. etc. Whereas the United Nations declared
|Canada the best country in the world in which to live in terms of the
|quality of life. Jeez, America wouldn't even have Superman if it weren't
|for a Canadian inventing him. Toronto, the home of Marshall McLuhanatic! 

Good ole boy Goober has been subject to surgical implants that have been
feeding him the supremacist line of "Amerikaka is Great". "But your honour,
Hollywood made me do it!" "There is a vast conspiracy between Hollywood and
Silicon Valley -- The entire studio lot of MGM has been reduced to a
microrobotic backhoe and implanted in my keester." etc etc etc. Further
evidence of a typical American fertilizing the planet after overdosing on
an Xfile placebo. 

Sorry Goober, Canadians are used to Amerikaka's verbal bullshit -- pity
that you swallowed the entire American Dream -- a watered-down Morsel of
Magyar.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Anna Smith s Keelfiles?????????? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Anna Smith wrote:
:Don't worry about it. I've already forgotten about it and have set up my 
:killfile accordingly. 
 ^^^^^^^^
Brigitta Bali wrote:
|That should be Keelfile. Where's your wit girl?

Then following up Ms Annal Smith wrote:
|Since this post had your name on it I read it---
|Is she really still bothering to talk?
|I noticed something from her written directly to me in my inbox 
|Oh well.  Big surprise.  Can we say "killfile"?  Guess not...

If you had set up your kill file accordingly as you claim, then Ms Bali's
post would not have appeared in your inbox as you subsequently claimed. You
have to do more than just say "killfile" poof and it's done. Don't you
understand this elementary fact. Guess not! Eh?

-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Brigitta Doesn t Read Anna s Email (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Enike > aka Ms Annal Smith wrote:
|I noticed something from her written directly to me in my inbox 
|but, as I told her, I don't read what she writes

Perhaps she didn't notice because she didn't read what you wrote?

-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Re: Transilvania was,is and would be romanian province (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Some coward who didn't even dare to post his email address wrote:

>I believe that the issue is why do we have to talk of the "rights of Hungarian
s" in the first 
>place?  If Romania is a truly democratic nation, as it would like the rest of 
the world to 
>believe, there should not be any differentiation between the rights of the dif
ferent people 
>living on its territory?  

Good question.  Ask the Hungarians from Transylvania why they keep asking
for special rights.

>Unless there truly is a difference, in the sense of "some people are 
>created equal but some are more equal than others" which happens to be what I 
personally believe.

The Transylvanian Hungarians also believe that they are more equal than
others and keep asking for special rights.

>PS I truly hope and wish all Hungarians that Transylvania will not remain a "R
omanian Province" 

Keep dreaming.  With a ~75% Romanian majority, what do you expect
Transylvania to become?  Even if Romania would be willing to give it away,
I doubt that Hungary would accept taking it.  Too many Romanians and too
many problems would make Transylvania look like a poisonous gift to
Hungary.

Dan
-- 
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
+ - Re: The Monkish Purity of Goober Barfsai (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Wally Keeler > wrote:
>|I also prefer Popocatepetl to Mt. Logan. (Since vous etes so
>|creative, I'll give vous time to find out what Popocatepetl means in the
>|Nahuatl language. If you can't find it, let moi know.)
>
>You presume an interest which is not there. I prefer creative writing with
>poetic substance, not bland narrative.

Exactly. The last creative writer/poet died in 1838. Since then, only poor
imitations of "creative writing" appeared, being less creative as time dragged
on: the least creative appearing in this age. Ady, and Poe appear to be
creative to some extent, maybe Ambrose Bierce and Dr. Seuss. But they can't
even compare to the writings from the beginning of the 19th century. Then of
course, there are todays snotty pseudo-poets, who cater to the most limited
audience: themselves.

So, at the risk of offending Wally, my creativity will remain on the level of
looking up Nahuatl words, listening to bands like Pig Vomit, and not creating
word scrapers.

Gabor

AGYKONTROLL ALLAT AUTO AZSIA BUDAPEST CODER DOSZ FELVIDEK FILM FILOZOFIA FORUM GURU HANG HIPHOP HIRDETES HIRMONDO HIXDVD HUDOM HUNGARY JATEK KEP KONYHA KONYV KORNYESZ KUKKER KULTURA LINUX MAGELLAN MAHAL MOBIL MOKA MOZAIK NARANCS NARANCS1 NY NYELV OTTHON OTTHONKA PARA RANDI REJTVENY SCM SPORT SZABAD SZALON TANC TIPP TUDOMANY UK UTAZAS UTLEVEL VITA WEBMESTER WINDOWS