In article >,
Peter k Chong  > wrote:
>Mexico eh? Maybe so, maybe no... Hmm.. I haven't heard about the

Probably not...but still, an intriguing idea, no?

>folk-emboridery and the like of Meso-America and Mexico but you do have a
>point since the sacred eagle of the Aztecs does remind one of the Turul.

Hmmm...I never thought of that, but that is true. The eagle and the Turul, very
interesting.

>As to folk-patterns, are you saying that some of the Mexican folk-art
>patterns look like tulips, flowers and heart shapes? (Sorry I only know
>those Magyar folk patterns - They're probably Sumerian-based!) I know

Bingo. The colors, the shapes, the style was all very similar.

>Stag story) and there are a few Magyar-Meso-American lexical similarities
>(ex. Aztec TEPEC = hill, Magyar DOMB). Well, I think blah, blah,

I think that's exaggerated, there are a lot of English place names ending in
'hill', too. I doubt the languages (Nahuatl and Magyar) are close. Still, gotta
love those Nahuatl names:
Tepozotlan, Tlahuizcalpantecuitli, Ixtapalapa, Oaxtepec, Tlalnepantla,
Xochichichoncuac, Xtacumbilxunan...etc.

Unpronouncable, like Iszkaszentgyorgy or Satoraljaujhely.

Gabor

Dear Mr. Vojnic                                                          
       For the record I am Chinese but I personally do not see my own 
race as relevant... Anyways... The reason I am an ardent Hungarophile is 
that I have seen many instances in History when the Magyars were plain 
out ignored, kicked around and so on... This is all a most unfair and 
cruel judgement considering that I know several Magyars and each one of 
them have won my admiration and affection for their honesty, kindness, 
fairness and hospitality. (But as I said history doesn't seem to care 
- The disgusting and blantantly hypocritical Treaty of Trianon - one of 
the British diplomats representing Britain in the Treaty of Versailles 
said:                                                                    
    "I regard that Turanian race (Magyars) with acute contempt and 
distaste and like their cousins the Turks, they have created little and 
destroyed much. Their capital city reflects little auchtotonous character 
and is but a copy of Western capitals."                                  
                                                                         
     Western Europe's ignorance of Hungarian pleas in the Middle Ages 
when they were about to be ravaged by first the Mongol hordes and later 
the Ottoman Turks of Suleyman.) No doubt the Slavs have had their share 
of sorrows too, sometimes amongst themselves. (Ex. Magyarization of 
Austro-Hungarian Empire in the 19th century, Russian brutality during 
20th century with its Czech, Slovak and Ukranian relations, The Yugoslavs 
and their blood-feud, the Holocaust with the murder of Jews, Slavs, 
Gypsies, the handicapped, the maimed, The Mongol occupation and 
devastation of Kievan Rus' Poland, Yugoslavia as well as Hungary in the 
Middle Ages, etc.)                                                       
      I personally know several Slavs and I've worked with and for them 
too. In retrospect they've earnd my respect and admiration as they're a 
generous, helpful yet stoic people. I also admire them all for their 
courage in the face of their struggles (witness the Ukranian struggles, 
the bitterness of the Poles vis-a-vis the Nazis, Russians and Prussians, 
the brave defiance of the Czechs and Slovaks in front of their 
land-hungry neighbours) However the Magyars are despised and politely 
resented by many Slavs and non-Slavs alike and it makes me very bitter. 
This whole argument in itself is really supposed to be if the Hungarians 
are Mongolians. (To this I believe it only to be a part-truth and the 
Hungarians were probably Middle Eastern and Central Asian in origin. 
Doubtless, that the modern Hungarian today still retains the basic 
Asiatic/Caucasian stock to this mixing has occured with the Germanic and 
Slavonic peoples.)                                                       
      The burning point for me and the Hungarians and Slavs is that many 
Slavs (and other people for that matter) regard the Hungarians as 
descendants of a brutal barbarian tribe and that they shattered the 
peaceful unity that existed between the Yugoslavs and their cousins in 
the north and east. (I believe this to be false as the Hungarians 
occupied the Carpathian Basin before-hand). Up till very recently 
Hungarians and the rest of the world were brainwashed by a stupid and 
unfair Habsburg and later Russian inspired theory that Hungarians 
originated from Siberia and Finnic tribes. (They're only related to them 
linguistically not racially/anthropologically) Recently for the past 
month or so a certain Net-citizen has claimed that the Magyars were 
Asians/Huns and thus are barbarians with wild customs and all. This 
particular citizen is slavic in origin and insinuates that since the 
Hungarians and Finns are strangers to Europe unlike the Slavs, Germans 
and Latins they are alien, inferior and savage. Sorry if I insulted you 
about that. I just wanted to point out that if the Magyars "Magyarized" 
their population in the 19th century (this net-citizen rubbed that in by 
capitalizing the term MAGYARIZED in a reply to me) no doubts others like 
Germans, Japanese, Rwandans and Slavs have done similar things.          
                                                                         
                             Apologetically                              
                                                                         
                             Peter Chong

news:
Sorry about flooding you with thus huge scorecard with commentary and all 
but I want you to see a part of this ridiculous and other negative 
adjectived individual's mind. I hope it gives you some insight into my 
abiding disgust and hatred for this human and related views,.            
                                                                         
                      Üdvözlettel/Sincerely                              
                                                                         
                      Peter Chong

In >, Wayne McCollum > writes:
>
>Oh pleeaaase!  You wud make a fine bleedin-hart liberal US democrate.
>Wait...Our are one right??  Bombing those fine Libyan patriots that 
>the world was not at war with.  The world IS at war with these guys
>that kill women, children, etc(non-discriminatory bombers), anywhere.
>Retaliation is the only alternative action you have.  They love the
>rhetoric of diplomats wanting to 'chastise' them verbally.  They sit
>in the safety of their countries confines until time to bomb another
>plane or discotheque & laugh at the banter.  Look, how do you deal with
>random acts of terrorism worldwide?  Summit gatherings really accomplish
>little.  It looks good for an incumbent politician to be seen & heard
>at these during a re-election year but little else.  Sadly enough
>war, whether declared or undeclared, is ugly.  People die.  Terrorists
>are cowards that hide behind civilians & hostages.  The only thing that
>they understand is violence.  After the libyan bombing to which you
>refer, what was heard of or seen of, Kadahfy???  Little for many years
>until recently.  He knows how safe he is now.


25 years of terrorism and Government responses (including Internment without
trial) didn't bring peace. Talking has done.

In article >, the following poem was composed by 
:

>Oh pleeaaase!  You wud make a fine bleedin-hart liberal US democrate.
>Wait...Our are one right??  Bombing those fine Libyan patriots that 
>the world was not at war with.  The world IS at war with these guys
>that kill women, children, etc(non-discriminatory bombers), anywhere.
>Retaliation is the only alternative action you have.


it can be clearly seen that countries that had a minor terrorism problem up 
to now deal completely different with the subject than countries that were 
affected for a long time. the us had no terrorism problem until recently 
and now, they want to get tough on it. but the eu has other plans than the 
us because they're philosophically a few steps ahead of the baseball bat 
hammer methods of the american government. i don't say they're making a 
terrific job, but at least, unlike the americans, they try to think where 
some roots of terrorism may be. as usual, the americans fight the symptoms 
and think they can eliminate a problem (korea, vietnam, chile, nicaragua, 
cuba, libya, their one time friends iraq etc etc). the most hypocritical 
bastards in the business are and will be the americans.


-- 
roland burkhard               
(you can't be) a good engineer without being the right
kind of metaphysician      --- aldous huxley ---

 (heringer) wrote:
>
>That used to be the situation before the fall of the Soviet empire.  The 
>past few years many non-jews came to the New World, a huge part of them 
>criminal elements.  I am reading a lot nowadays of the new Russian 
>maffia.  There was no Russian maffia here prior to the collapse of the 
>Soviet Union.
>

Are you sure?

 Vlastik




       The contents of this message express only the sender's opinion.
       This message does not necessarily reflect the policy or views of
       my employer, Merck & Co., Inc.  All responsibility for the statements
       made in this Usenet posting resides solely and completely with the
       sender.

Yes, yes and true. (He didn't say Mongol did he?)

Kedves mexikoiak,
 
a hugom iden irna a diplomajat. Temaja a mexikoi nyelvvel kapcsolatos;
az indio nyelvek befolyasa a beszelt mexikoi-spanyol nyelvre.
Munchenben eleg keves (kb. semmi) az irodalom errol a teruletrol es
szivesen irodalomkutatna 1 honapig (most szeptembertol) Mexikoban.
 
Minden otletet szivesen fogadunk egyetemi kapcsolatokkal, 
szallassal kapcsolatban. 
 
koszonom, Zsolt


--


> =====================================================================
Zsolt Pocsai                      
Institute for Computer Application            Phone: +49-721-608 2762 
in Planning and Design (RPK)                  Fax:   +49-721-66 11 38
University of Karlsruhe, Germany      
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 http://www-rpk.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/public/Mitarbeiter/pocsai.html      
> =====================================================================

In article >,
George Szaszvari > wrote:
>In article >,  says...
><snip>..
>>One day when all this nationalistic nonsense subsides and people start
>>thinking of the others in terms of what they can do rather than where
>>they were born, the rationale for this kind of discussion will cease to
>>exist. People will then be friends!
>
>Well spoken!
>George Szaszvari

That's an understatement! VERY well spoken (written)!
GK

In article >,
Maria Egorov > wrote:
>Did you meet a TURK from ISTANBUL?
>Did you hear about O.J. Simpson?
>Porphyrogenitus met the Hungarians and called them TURKS.( 940 AD)
>

Yup. What would had he called you?
Don't answer that. There were too many harsh words in this newsgroup already.

Dear Readers:

	Please excuse the fact that I am writing this in
	English.  I am doing so in order for everyone to
	be able to read, and hopefully help.

	Some of you may not be aware, and others I would
	like to remind that the Hungarian-American Lobby
	is planning to purchase a full page ad in the
	New York Times to 1) commemorating the 40th
	anniversary of the revolution and 2) keep before
	the eyes of the public Hungary in general as she
	struggles with a number of significant issues.

	The following text will be published with a 
	Norman Rockwell painting as background.  The
	fact that the Rockwell family is willing to 
	support the cause with the use of the painting
	should not only be flattering for us all, but
	encourage each and every one to participate
	in raising the funds necessary to publish.

	At the top of the painting:

	"No nation on this planet did more for freedom
	and justice, than Hungary!"

					Albert Camus


	Below the painting:

	"On this 40th anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution,
	the struggle which mortally wounded Communism, we the
	Hungarian-Americans, ask our presidential candidates,
	to include in their foreign policy platforms, the
	support for the collective human rights and for the 
	cultural autonomy of all indigenous minority groups,
	including Europe's largest: the Hungarians."

	*******************************************************

	Please pledge your contributions according to your
	ability by e-mail to me for the purposes of knowing
	how close we are to the goal.  The list will be
	published periodically for the benefit of informing
	all readers.  If we will succeed in raising the 
	still needed $18,000 then I will ask that you mail
	your check/money order made payable to the New York
	Times to me, so I may submit the advertisement.

	We have a very short time, but there are many to
	share in the goal -- so it need not be a burden
	to anyone.  This should be our way of thanks-living.
	

	Please tell your friends, your friends' friends
	and make your pledges as soon as possible!

	Thank you.

	Julie Molnar Mester -- Coordinator for this project
	
	4360 Ivymount Ct., #36
	Annandale, Va. 22003
	Telephone and fax: 703-658-4631

In article >,
 > wrote:
| Bemutatokent rovid szemelvenyekkel ismertetjuk a Nemzet c.
| 
| ==
| 
| FEJENALLAS HAROM LABON
| 
| Raffay Erno
| [Magyar Forum, augusztus 1.]
| 

| Horn onleleplezo mondata a kesobbiekben beigazolodott. Jott a
| szlovak-magyar alapszerzodes, es a budapesti diplomacia nem tudta
| megakadalyozni sem az alairtak utolagos szlovak ertelmezeset, sem a
| pozsonyi ratifikalas elodazasat addig, amig a Szlovak Nemzeti Tanacs
| meg nem hozta a magyarellenes torvenyek jo reszet. Kulugyi
| "szakertoink" azt gondoltak, hogy meg mindig a csehszlovak
| szocialista diplomacia kepviseloivel targyalnak, akiket Moszkva
| iranyit.

Nevetseges. Ezek szerint peldaul az USA is ugyanilyen, sot
Japan es Franciaorszag is, amikor nem tudjak megakadalyozni
az utolagos ertelmezest (ld Kina, Ororszorszag)
(Oroszorszag, USA) stb
| | Kovetkezett az Ilisecu-fele roman-magyar tortenelmi megbekelesi
| tervezet. Ahelyett, hogy a budapesti kormany nemzetkozi es hazai
| szinteren ramutatott volna a tenyek erejevel (az erdelyi magyarok
| sorsat bemutatva) arra, hogy a roman kormany vizet predikal es bort
| iszik, targyalni kezdett. Ennek vagy az lesz a vege, hogy szuletik meg
| egy magyarellenes alapszerzodes, vagy ha nem, akkor a roman
| kormany teleharsogja a vilagot azzal, hogy a magyarok mar megint
| nem akarjak a beket, a megyegyezest. Mindket esetben az erdelyi
| magyarok jarnak porul.

Tehat Raffay Erno, a tole megszokott eleslatassal inkabb NEM
targyalt volna. Ez alternativea lett volna, hiszen a Roman
kormany erre a lepesre nem harsogta volna a vilagot azzal
hogy a magyarok nem akarjaka  beket, a megegyezest. 
Raffay allitasanak a forditottja igaz. A targyalasokba valo
beleegyezessel erheti el Magyarorszag azt, hogy erkolcsi
toket kovacsol a tiltakozasokhoz, illetve ezert is van az
hogy Magyarorszag es ROmania megitelese hivatalos es nem
hivatalos korkben is egeszen mas.   
| 
| Az elmult ket evben a budapesti kulpolitika vezetoi tobbszor
| kimondtak: harom labon all a magyar kulpolitika. Ennek az a lenyege,
| hogy - fontossagi sorrendben - elso helyre tettek a nyugati
| integraciohoz valo csalakozast, utana a szomszedos (trianoni)
| orszagokkal valo kapcsolattartast, s csak a sor vegere soroltak a
| megszallt magyar teruleteken ( a "szomszedos orszagokban") elo
| magyarsag erdekeinek vedelmet. 

Hogy a fraszba lehet a masodikat meg a harmadikat A m,asodik
celja reszben a harmadik, illetve a masodik nelkul a
harmadik sem elerheto.
elvalasztani egymastol?

Ennek a feje tetejere allitott
| elkepzelesnek az a lenyege, hogy a budapesti kormany NEM A
| KARPAT -MEDENCEI MAGYARSAG EGYSEGES ERDEKEHEZ SZABJA A
| KULPOLITIKAJAT, hanem osszetevesztve a celt az eszkozzel, A
| MAGYAR ERDEKET ALARENDELI A SOHA NEM RESZLETEZETT NATO-,
| EUROPAI UNIO- ES EGYEB ERDEKEKNEK. Ez tehat nem mas, mint a
| reformkommunista kulpolitika, szovjet hatter nelkul, a jol
| korulhatarolhato idegen erdek egyre hatarozottabb kepviseletevel.
| (Korantsem veletlen, hogy az Orszaggyules kulugyi bizottsaganak
| elnoket az SZDSZ adja!)

Persze hogy nem veletlene. Raffai partja es kormanya miatt
van ez. Egyaltalan nem veletlenul.
Milyen idegen erdekrol van szo? Milyen szlovak es roman
erdeket ved a magyar kormany? Milyen modon ha nem EU
tamogatassal erheti el Mayarorszag az erdel;yi Magyarsag
helyzeenek javulasat? Mennyivel tobbet ert el az EUnal mar
ma is! a mai magyar kormany, mintha az integralodas
elleneben,cselekedett volna, es nem Romania serul e ujabb es
ujabb "csapasokat" mert nem ezt teszi ?

| 
| [stb]
| ==
| 
| Tul sokszor csaptak be a videki embert
| 
| Szarka Sandor
| [Demokrata]
| 
| [ A Nemzet szerk. kommentarja: Az emigracio mar evek ota koveteli
| az adossagrendezest, mielott a kleptokratak sok-sok tizmilliard
| dollart elherdaltak volna "adossagszolgalat" (valojaban "az evszazad
| rablasa") cimen. Most mar (keson!) otthon is egyre eroteljesebben
| felmerul ez a koveteles. Aki tehat azt kerdezne "milyen alapon
| formal az emigracio erkolcsi toket ahhoz hogy minden magyar
| politikumara befolyast gyakoroljon?" igy valaszolhatunk tehat: "Azon
| tul, hogy az emigransok (jobbara) nem alkudtak meg a
| kommunistakkal, tobb evtizedes gyakorlatot halmoztak fel VALODI
| demokraciabol, politikai tokejuk most mar tobb tizmilliard dollarra
| rug azzal, hogy M.o. ennyivel lenne most gazdagabb, ha az emigracio
| utmutatasat IDEJEBEN ELFOGADJA!"]

Vagy szegenyebb...
Mas.. ezek az emigransok (kollektive?) milyen gyakorlatot szereztek
demokraciabol amely egy   ilyen szakmai kerdesen perdonto
lenne? Mely demokratikus elv relevans arra hogy egy orszag
csodot jelnt vagy sem?

Istvan

On 9 Aug 1996 12:28:23 -0000, I&G Jalsovszky wrote:

>A millecentenariumi rendezvenyek kereteben a Neprajzi Muzeumban allitottak
>ki Somogyi Gyozo festomuvesz "Magyar hosok arckepcsarnoka" c., eredetileg
>100 kepbol allo gyujtemenyet. A kiallitas anyagabol Hofer Tamas, a muzeum
>foigazgatoja a kiallito muvesz utolagos tajekoztatasaval nyolc festmenyt
>eltavolitott, kozottuk Horthy Miklos kormanyzo kepmasat. 
>
>Somogyi Gyozo szerint, aki a levett kepek visszahelyezeset es ezzel alkotasa
>egysegenek helyreallitasat keri, egy mualkotasba a szerzo hozzajarulasa
>nelkul belenyulni, abbol reszeket kivenni rongalas, amely szerzoi jogokat es
>alkotoi szabadsagot sert, az alkotonak sulyos anyagi es erkolcsi karokat
>okozhat. "En muvesz vagyok, es kepeket festettem, nem politikai plakatokat"
>- nyilatkozta a festomuvesz.
>
>A Magyar Nemzet aug. 9-i szamaban megjelent informacio szerint (l.g.)
>lapzartaig a levett kepek nem kerultek vissza a Magyar hosok arckepcsarnoka
>c. kiallitas falara.
>
>Gyermekkoromban, az otvenes evek elejen lelkes belyeggyujto voltam, es 12.
>szuletesnapomra megkaptam a magyar belyegek katalogusat. Meglepetessel
>tapasztaltam, hogy a katalogusban egyes sorozatok elnevezese, kepe es
>arfolyama nem szerepel. Kesobb tudtam meg, amikor mar egy hasznalt
>Zumstein-katalogus boldog tulajdonosava valtam, hogy ezek a sorozatok
>reszben olyan belyegeket tartalmaznak, amelyek Horthy Miklos kormanyzo
>kepmasat viselik. Hat ismet ide jutottunk 43 ev utan?
>
>Jalsovszky Gy.
>

The situation is not that bad compared to the Zumstein-catalogue. 
The catalogue of the "Hundred Hungarian Heroes" of the painter 
Somogyi is available at the Museum of Ethnography, including Horthy and
his seven officers who fought in the II.WW, some of them depicted with
the Iron Cross of the Third Reich.

The exhibition of these pictures was done without prior concent of either the
Museum or the committee that ordered this exhibition, and therefore they were 
removed soon after the opening. 

Somogyi presented Horthy and his soldiers as "sanctified personalities of
the Hungarian historic memory". We do not deny that there were honest men
among them, but do not think that the sanctification process would be
complete nor should it be completed by the Museum of _Ethnography_.

We sincerely hope that the one-sidedness of the letter results from the
lack of adequate information and not from the intentional preconception 
and bias of the writer.

Sincerely,

Tamas Hofer.

Kocsis Tamas > irja :

>In article > I&G Jalsovszky,
 writes:
>>A kiallitas anyagabol Hofer Tamas, a muzeum
>>foigazgatoja a kiallito muvesz utolagos tajekoztatasaval nyolc festmenyt
>>eltavolitott, kozottuk Horthy Miklos kormanyzo kepmasat.
>
>Hat ez durva dolog vo't (bar erdekelne, hogy ki a masik het
>aldozat). Ha a politikai tevekenysegeert nem is, de tenger-
>nagykent, az elso vilaghaborus erdemeiert, tengereszkent
>mindenkeppen megerdemli Horthy, hogy hoskent szerepeljen
>abban az arckepcsarnokban.  Orrba-szajba szivatta az olasz
>flottat, pedig az sokkal nagyobb volt, mint a K und K flotta.
>
A kovetkezo informacio all rendelkezesemre a Magyar Nemzet aug. 9-i cikke
alapjan: [Hofer Tamas ]" ... levette Horthyt, ... az ellenallo Verse'nyit,
akit a nemetek koncentracios taborba zartak es Szentgyo:rgyit, akinek nevet
ma repuloezred viseli." Ha a lista olvasoi kozul valaki tobbet tud az
ugyrol, kerem ne sajnalja a faradsagot es jelentkezzen!

Egy szombat delutani radiomusorban Hofer Tamas azt nyilatkozta, hogy a
masodik vilaghaboruban harcolo tabornokok abrazolasmodjaval volt gondja, ha
mas, "arnyaltabb" formaban abrazolta volna oket a muvesz, esetleg megusztak
volna a kicenzurazast. (Hiaba, a szocrealnak nincsen parja! :)

A szombati Magyar Nemzet ot jelentos muveszeti egyesulet es szovetseg nyilt
levele't kozli ez ugyben; a levelben tobbek kozott a kovetkezo olvashato: 

"Inkabb meglepetessel es amulattal, mint felhaborodva es megdobbenve
ertesultunk a Somogyi Gyozo fesotmuvesz kiallitasat ert cenzuralis
beavatkozasrol. Letezik meg ilyen? - kerdeztuk magunkat es egymast,
elcsodalkozva az anakronisztikus jelenseg felbukkanasan. A rendszervaltozas
ota nem fordult elo hasonlo, leszamitva az egyetlen esetet, amikor egy
elozetes letartoztatasban levo gyanusitott kiallitasat tiltottak be egy
elavult paragrafus alapjan. ... Feltetlenul szuksegesnek tartjuk
kijelenteni, hogy Somogyi Gyozo muveszi szuverenitasa sulyos serelmet
szenvedett, es elvarasaval azonosulva kivanjuk a festmenyek visszatetelet."

Jalsovszky Gy.