Hungarian Lobby > writes:

>From: 
>Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 08:59:32 -0400
>Subject: HL: Contact with Pro-TV of Romania

>MESSAGE TO OUR ROMANIAN FRIENDS:

>Romanians and Hungarians must work together for a better future. The
>Hungarian Lobby, which includes members of the 1.5 million community of
>Hungarian-Americans is in favor of Hungarian-Romanian reconciliation and
>friendship, based on mutual respect and equality. I for one, am also in favor
>of the formation of a Danubian Confederation in which our two nations would
>be founding members.

	Bela, if you are sincere, then what you say is desired by many people
indeed. I'm afraid that the last suggestion, although maybe goodwilled, might 
need some time to be embraced by both sides. Help removing the scars on both 
sides first, and then maybe boundaries will remove themselves if this is good 
for both sides.

>We want to help the Romanian people. But we do not want to help in the
>reelection of the former Communists by revarding the Iliescu government with
>permanent MFN status now. We hope that the next government of Romania will
>make the press truly free, will return all the Church properties, will
>guarantee the cultural autonomy of the national community of Hungarians and
>similarly to Slovakia, will include Recommendation 1201 of the European
>Community in the Basic Agreement between our nations. When that happens, we
>will not only support permanent MFN for Romania, but will do all that good
>neighbors should do in helping each other.

	I am also afraid that the verb "to help", although maybe goodwilled 
as well, is not very happily placed in the first sentence above. People are 
sensitive on both sides and some on one side might still get their feelings
hurted. How about "to cooperate with"?

>Endre Ady's famous poem, which suggested reconciliation and frendship among
>our people can and I hope will become reality and you should realize that
>this is what we are working for.

>Respectfully yours: Bela Liptak

Minden jo't! (I was taught that this means "All the best!" and I hope it says
indeed what I mean - "All the best!")

Eddie

Anna V. Bompiani presents her paintings at

http://www.vol.it/bompiani



         Giorgio  Bompiani
         

In article >, "%FNAME%"
> wrote:

> Believe me, I want absolutely nothing.  I only sit back and rejoice in 
> the judgdment passed by the civilized world against Romania who is being 
> ignored by virtually every western country.>

You, sir, are a nasty, lousy human being. Even granting the situation is
as you say it is, to sit back and rejoice in it while so many innocents 
suffer unnecessarily is the mark of sick soul who needs serious help. I
recommend a priest or a psychiatrist in that order.


> I would like to tell my fellow poster that you are, unfortunately, the 
> product of your country.  As such, and through your rather monotonous 
> and illiterate use of words, demonstrate yet again, why your country is 
> in the shape it's in.

I don't particularly like what this guy wrote, but to make him "a product
of your country", that is Romania, is to ignore the utterly small minority
that he is in as a Funar fan. The fact that everybody in the opposition is
getting together to boot this buffoon out of office is, I think, more 
indicative of the real national mood of Romania. No country is immune from
having embarrassing mayors. Heck, even the US congress includes a socialist
nowadays. If you look honestly at the bigger picture, Romania is recovering
from her political sickness and I beleive that once we do get these creeps
out, we will never let them get back in, unlike Poland, Hungary, and a host
of others who took the fast track out and then re-elected the communists 
right back in.

DB

-- 
Now available on the Romanian Political Pages
The only net copy of the Romanian constitution in Romanian
(I wonder why the government never put it on their sites?)
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

On Wed, 15 May 1996, Matthew Paul Kenneth wrote:

> I am an American going to teach in Kolozsvar next year. I have seen 

Good luck, you will most likely have fun and enjoy it.

> the statue, excavation that the citizens of KOLOZSVAR are paying for that 
> has yielded absolutely nothing of value, nothing connecting Romania to 

But it could. Historical finds are a frail thing. I am sure the churches
you speak of will be there 100 years after.

> 19th, 18th, 17th and 16th centuries cannot be denied. Anyone interested 
> in western culture at all could understandably mourn for that loss, a 
> loss not due to the Romanian people but due to the evils of war, 
> propaganda and Ceaucescu.
> Beke

I don't know how much of a western culture they contributed to, I like
to thing of it as a Transylvanian culture, that was spiced with many
ingredients.  
Then, you raise the issue of loss. What loss ? Hungarians are stil there,
they have nowhere to go. In time those of them desiring to enroll their
children in Hungarian language schools (an issue now) will probably do so,
as some did up until the late seventies.

Most the of the Saxon have left, but I am curious, who will claim they
were persecuted ? All of Romania endured severe economic and political
persecution and distress during the Ceausescu years. The Saxons had a
choice, a window of opportunity opend to them, and as they lost confidence
in their prospects in Romania and were fascinated by whatever prospects
they may attain in Germany, they left. Economic migrants at most.

m. cristian

In article >, Lee Laborczfalvi
> wrote:

> Fuck off you fuckbag gypsy scum.
> -- 
> Lee Laborczfalvi
> Sydney
> Australia

1. In case you haven't figured this out already, you can't tell who you 
are referring to unless you quote.

2. Your mouth is in the gutter and it is pathetic that you can't come up
with something better. If you are going to be a racist, why be a stupid,
buffoon, gutter-mouth racist? 

3. Go away. When you have something intelligent to say, welcome back.

DB

-- 
Now available on the Romanian Political Pages
The only net copy of the Romanian constitution in Romanian
(I wonder why the government never put it on their sites?)
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

> Oh, SHUT UP YOU! who the fuck gives the right to tell us Romanians what to do
 
> with our national heroes??!! If Funar wants to raise a 200 meter statue of 
> Avram Iancu in Cluj let him do it! It's our country and we can do whatever th
e 
> fuck we want! Understood??? so get the fuck off our newsgroup with your stupi
d 
> magyar rhetoric that even your fellow magyars would not agree with.
> 
> Besides how many hungarians did Antonescu ordered to be send to concentration
 
> camps? We fucking paid with the blood of our Romanian soldiers to fucking 
> liberate your stinkin' Budapest. And now, what the fuck you want more?? 
> 
> And who the fuck convincted Antonescu I may ask? Yeah...sure the "romanian 
> people" in the name of the "Romanian Popular Republic". What republic? Who 
> instaurated the republic?? And don't bring me that bullshit about Horty! Bear
 
> with it, he's just as quilty as any fascist out there, besides he was one of 
> the first to run and lick Hitler's toes. At least Antonescu believed in 
> Romania and died here, and that's why he's a hero to us. He didn't die of 
> natural causes....in Portugal...for example.
> 
> -Funar for Mayor of Cluj
> 
I am an American going to teach in Kolozsvar next year. I have seen 
excavation inching nearer and nearer to the church, nearer and nearer to 
the statue, excavation that the citizens of KOLOZSVAR are paying for that 
has yielded absolutely nothing of value, nothing connecting Romania to 
their ancient Roman roots, nothing. Regardless of who was where first, 
there is the valid arguement that what the Saxons and Magyars contributed 
to Transylvania (culture,folk and otherwise, schools, churches etc.)in the 
19th, 18th, 17th and 16th centuries cannot be denied. Anyone interested 
in western culture at all could understandably mourn for that loss, a 
loss not due to the Romanian people but due to the evils of war, 
propaganda and Ceaucescu.

Beke

In article >,  ()
wrote:

> Cours 6412 > wrote:

> >Unfortunately romanians could not benefit as others from the 
> >"perestroika" and "glasnost" radiating from Moscow.
> 
> Yes, Romanians could not even come up with their own perestroika because
> they were too mesmerized by their Genius of the Carpathian and his
> Academician wife.

Mesmerism had nothing to do with it. Not wanting to get shot had 
everything to do with it. Cuba, Romania, N. Korea all these countries had
enough independent strength so that when Moscow said put in perestroika,
they didn't. It is not a question of how little resistance Romanians are
capable of putting up at all. What Joe, do you think that we are any 
different from the Romanians of a century ago that won independance from
your boot? Does it still hurt so much that you have to take cheap shots?

> >In november 1987 in Brasov (second largest city in Romania) there
> >has been an uprising.
> >It occurred while a fake election event was taking place.
> >It was a spontaneous movement that involved the workers of the
> >"Tractorul" factory (I think). I know that a mob of angry people
> >devastated the party and mayory buildings.
> 
> Yes, I know about that.  But again, as I wrote to the Law Student, that
> event has nothing to do with the toppling of the Ceausescu regime in
> '89.

No, silly, but it does put to rest your idea that Romanians where 
"mesmerized". There have been several other uprisings over the years. 
They were all put down. It says nothing about the character of the nation
except that Romanian communists were better at politics than Hungarians, 
etc. But then again, we knew that already.

> >  But I guess that 1987 was a bit too early for the dismantlement
> >of the iron cortin.
> 
> It was also too localized.

And Timisoara wasn't. Try reviewing the facts.

> >Everybody has heard about the hungarian 1956 uprising while nobody knew
> >(even romanians didn't knew) about the partisan war waged in the 
> >Carpathians by anti-communist forces until the 50s.
> 
> Maybe because there was a big difference in their significance, no?

So how long were communists getting it from the hungarian anti-communists,
days, weeks, months? In Romania it was years. Yup, I guess there is a 
difference in significance in how quickly hungarians folded versus romanians.
It's just that this difference is not quite the way you would like it to be...

DB

-- 
Now available on the Romanian Political Pages
The only net copy of the Romanian constitution in Romanian
(I wonder why the government never put it on their sites?)
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

In article >,  > wrote:
>Ez csak egy proba...
Sikerult ....

In article >, "%FNAME%"
> wrote:

> Indeed,
> 
> But I remember hearing once that Romanians disliked Secretary of State 
> Baker because they assumed his views on Romania to be influenced by his 
> Hungarian wife  ( is that true?).  Once again, a typical Romanian 
> reaction, it is always other people's fault fortheir shortcomings, not 
> their own

I've seen this reaction among Romanians as well as other groups. I tend to
react negatively no matter where I see this sort of prejudice. It isn't 
smart, it isn't very accurate, and I think that this attitude (which I 
share with many other Romanians) is at least as worthy of being labeled a
'typical Romanian reaction' as the idiocy you decry above. 

You are ticking people off not for the acts that you decry so much as the
very, very, broad brush that you paint us all with. And for that, you 
should apologize.

DB

-- 
Now available on the Romanian Political Pages
The only net copy of the Romanian constitution in Romanian
(I wonder why the government never put it on their sites?)
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

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On Wed, 15 May 1996, Funkdafied wrote:

> WHY THE FUCK IS THIS HERE?? YOU FUCKING FAGGOT, IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS 
> THE SOVIET UNION DO IT SOME WHERE ELSE, I DIDNT COME INTO THIS NEWS GROUP 
> TO SEE THIS SHIT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT!
> 
> I don't understand why this is all over this fucking news group. 

It's easy: This is because such f*** faggots keep responding to this f*** 
shit from all over their f*** groups you f*** faggot!

In article >, 
(Brigitta Bali) wrote:

> Mr Bland Gland wrote:

> >He thinks because he uses vulgar words he's cool, big man on campus.
> 
> He fears no words. 

So now the truth is known! Oali fears silence. No wonder his eliteness 
speaks out so often to us common masses. 

DB

-- 
Now available on the Romanian Political Pages
The only net copy of the Romanian constitution in Romanian
(I wonder why the government never put it on their sites?)
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

On 15 May 1996  wrote:

> Peter Hakel  > wrote:
> >
> >  Do you think I was overreacting? I don't think so. Some Slovaks think 
> >that Hungarians still feel the superiority which has its roots in the old
> >Hungarian Kingdom. Being non-diplomatic like this would only reinforce
> >this belief which makes developing a positive attitude difficult.
> 
> I am even more at a loss now than before!  I have no idea what all this
> has to do with my comment about Frajkor.  So I give up.
> 
> Joe

 One more time and then I give up too. It was the word "even" you used. 
If you're still at a loss, (re)read my explanation which you deleted.
Enough said.


Peter Hakel

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#In article >,  says...
#>

#>but what citizenship he holds. In Switzerland, we are close to that 
#>ideal state. People are simply Swiss regardless of whether they speak
##>five languages, three, two, or just one. Public servants have a legal
#>obligation to speak at least two national lanugages and the citizen
#>have right to speak their language for every official purpose.

	perhaps you might quote whether there are any swiss citizens
	going say to italy, or germany, for instructions how to act 
	(against the interests of their country).
	alternately, whether the governments of those countries would
	have the bad taste to inerfere in matters ethnical in            
        switzerland.   another detail that has escaped you is the fact 
        that the respective ethnical groups live in areas close to 100%  
        populated by those groups.   the people may have the right to 
	speak their language, but nobody has the obligation to understand
	them.   at least i can hardly imagine any crowds                 
	speaking/understanding say retoromansch in zurich or lausanne.   
	there is a big difference between a national state and a multi-
	ethnical one.   by the way, can you imagine a hungarian official
	(in hungary) speaking a language of any of the minorities hungary
	is composed of?   this question is just as a matter of test.     
	any quantity of nonsense may be proposed, very little (if        
	anything) can be realised.

#In article >,  
#says...
#>
#>
#>negotiations or during the ratification process.  The Hungarians did
#>not try to change the text during the signing ceremony and the
#>Hungarian Parliament did not attach additional paragraphs to the Treaty
#>during the ratification process.  And why should they?  They were both
#>occupied countries, dominated by the armed forces of the Soviet Union,
#>and ruled by an undemocratically elected Communist Party which did not
#>represent the will of the people.
#>
#>Thus I fail to understand the parallel you are making to the current
#>Slovak-Hungarian Treaty, which was negotiated by the freeley and
#>democratically elected governments of Slovakia and Hungary.
#>
#>As far as Gabcikovo is concerned, here are my recollection of the
#>facts:  one of the first official acts of the free Hungarian Government
#>was to confirm the decisions made by the last of the Communist
#>Governments who (much to their credit) decided to break the Treaty

	a good sample of hungarian-style reasoning.  a treaty is a 
	treaty.   you either abrogate it, or stand by it.    


#>since they relized that it would have disastrous effect on the Danube

	so far it has not had that effect.   but it has speeded up 
	the traffic on the danube (thus reducing pollution), as well
	as improved irrigation on both banks.

#>the International Court at the Hague, which in time will decide whether
#>their action was justified or not. 
#>
#>One last thought:  although I recognize that countries, as legal
#>entities, must accept the consequences of decisions made by previous
#>governments, even if those governments were hated dictatorial regimes, 
#>I find it surprising that you don't make the distinction between the
#>old Warsaw Pact dictatorships and today's democratic governments.

	i don't see what has the warsaw pact to do with the construction
	of a dam on a river...?

#>
#>Unless, of course, you don't feel that there is much of a difference
#>between Meciar's and Husak's government.  In that case Slovakia has a
#>much, much bigger problem than this Treaty.

	i am not competent to make any pronouncements slanted the way
	you are trying to slant them.   any government is obliged to
	work for the good of its citizens.   if you are looking for
	examples you would like to vent your frustration on, the history
	(as well as hystery) of hungary provides copious examples.

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Ez csak egy proba...