------------------------------------------ -- EZ A SZÁM CSAK TEXT FORMÁBAN LÉTEZIK -- ------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 91 22:49:25 EDT Subject: *** FORUM *** #193 Tartalomjegyzek: ---------------- Felado : pvoros@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Temakor : The Competitive Advantage of Nations Felado : takacsi@cs.uchicago.edu Temakor : Kommunistak Felado : h1105dea@ella.hu Temakor : ??? Felado : heszler@61820 Temakor : Pozsgay =es Demszky= Felado : pardavi@seas.gwu.edu Temakor : sajto=szemle=Zwack Felado : 72600.3046@compuserve.com Temakor : Au revoir= mes amis. Felado : 72600.3046@compuserve.com Temakor : Au revoir= mes amis II. Felado : diana.vorsatz@brunel.ac.uk Temakor : egy populista vallomasai =============================================== Felado : pvoros@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Beerkezett: Mon Apr 8 22:51:21 EDT 1991 Temakor : The Competitive Advantage of Nations - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Kedves Leirer Laszlo! Elnezest kesei valaszomert. Igy irtal legutobbi leveledben: "eredeti allitasoddal "hogy erdekes, elgondolkodtato (es szomoru ...) az, hogy egy csomo fontos gazdasagi-politikai kerdesben az erosen kozepszeru tanacsadokkal korulvett, jobboldali/konzervativ politikusoknak volt rendre igaza az utobbi 10-20 evben (Reagan, Bush, Thatcher, stb." vitatkozva probaltam adatokkal megspekelve ervelni, hgy szerintem ez az allitas miert nem igaz. Erre azt valaszoltad, hogy elemzesemmel lenyegeben egyetertesz. Akkor itt most ket dolog lehetseges. Vagy elfogadtad, hogy a jobboldali/konzervativ politikusoknak megsem volt igazuk, bar ennek nem latam jelet leveledben, vagy elemzesemmel egyetertesz, de abbol szamodra nem kovetkezik, hogy a jobboldali politikusoknak nincs igazuk. Ez utobbi esetben ellenerveket varnek, ezeket azonban nem kaptam". Itt eloszor is elnezest kell kernem, ugyanis akkori hozzaszolasomat meglehetosen hevenyeszve hoztam ossze, felig mar nem voltam itthon; ami persze nem mentseg a felreertesekre okot ado fogalmazasra. Azzal, hogy akkor azt irtam, hogy egyetertek Veled abban, amit a jobboldali politikusokrol irtal, valoban azt ertettem, hogy a dolgoknak azzal a reszevel, amikrol Te irtal egyetertek. De mit jelent az, hogy igazuk van? Igazuk van miben? Minden, amit mondanak igaz/hamis/? Azert igaz/hamis/ mert ok mondjak vagy egyszeruen igaz/hamis/? En a dolgokat nem szeretem ennyire feketen-feheren latni, fokepp azert mert ez tobbnyire kibekithetetlen, s ami meg rosszabb termeketlen velemenyekhez vezet, amiknek a valosag osszetettsegehez semmi kozuk nincs. Azert csak egy-ket pelda arra, hogy miben volt igazuk a jobboldali politikusoknak. A fegyverkezesi verseny hetvenes evek vegi, nyolcvanas evek elejei ujabb forduloja: Ez, ahogy azt hiszem elso hozzaszolasodban is irtad, (szemben a hangoztatott supply-side gazdasagi jelszavakkal) egy igazi neokeynesi gazdasagpolitikai dontes volt, ez utobbival nem minositeni akarom egyiket sem. A poen szerintem az volt, hogy Reagan es tanacsadoi elhataroztak, hogy vegleg terdre kenyszeritik a Szovjetuniot a fegyverkezesi verseny ezen ujabb szakaszaval, es ez lenyegeben sikerult is, ld. 1985 -> Gorbacsov hatalomra kerulese, majd 1988- 89 kelet-europai (es parhuzamosan szovjet) valtozasai. Lehetseges persze, hogy egyedulallok ezzel a velemenyemmel, de nemi koszonet jar ezert az oreg cowboy-szinesz-radiokommentarnak (pedig hidd el, en sem csipem egyebkent a fajtajat...) Az egesz tolem idezett bekezdes kulonben csak egy kozbeszurt megjegyzes volt es amint ki is belole, egy korabbi hozzaszolot ideztem, aki ha jol emlekszem ezt (tobbek kozott) a Golf- haboruval kapcsolatban jegyezte meg. Es ennel a temanal maradva (sajnos) megint csak a konzervativ Bush-vonallal kell(ett), hogy egyetertsek. T.i. szerintem ez a haboru arra ment ki, hogy vitas kerdeseket a jovoben mar ne dontsunk el ilyen eszkozokkel, ld. "New World Order". A haborunak meg a gondolatatol is irtozom, de bizonyos esetekben ezt a kisebb rosszat kell valasztani (ld. csak a vegtelensegig emlegetett, de talan ennek ellenere megis ervenyes Hitler-Husszein parhuzamot. Igazan elnezest azonban a trockista baratom megemlitese miatt kell kernem; en ezt csak egy anekdotakent mellekesen meseltem el, amivel egyaltalan nem az volt a szandekom, hogy "manoverezesi lehetosegeidet" kurtitsam meg: ez tenyleg felreertheto hiba volt, marcsak azert is, mert (nem tudom, ez kiderult eddigi megjegyzeseimbol vagy nem) nekem sem kifejezetten kedvencem a "jelenlegi magyar ertelmisegi/politikai diszkurzus" stilusa. Emogott "formailag" az all, hogy en pl. a sportban is szeretek a gyengebbnek szurkolni (mi poen van abban, ha az ember az erosebbnek drukkol? - persze kiveve, ha a Verebes-fele Raba ETO/MTK-VM-rol van szo ...) Egy kicsit komolyabban az van emogott, hogy a dolgok ugy izgalmasak szerintem, ha valodi velemenykulonbsegek letezhetnek, ki is mondathatnak, felszinre is kerulhetnek - a jatek szabalyainak keretei kozott, es ott meressenek meg. (Persze ez sajnos a sportban sokkal egyszerubb es ott is hanyszor piszkitjak be a tiszta alapgondolatatot. Arrol mar nem is beszelve, hogy annal nincs is szamomra utalatosabb, ha valaki egyszer csak odajon es elveszi a labdat, mondvan az az ove es mi csak alljunk le szepen ...; amivel a jatek egy ujabb szintre terelodik...) Es ebbe persze az is beletartozik, hogy en becsulom es tisztelem azokat az embereket is, akik mindannak ellenere, ami az utobbi 45 evben tortent, hisznek a baloldali gondolatban. Mi tobb (ellentetben a Forumon is jo adagban megtalalhato kommunista- gyulolettel), en a kommunistakat is tisztelem, becsulom - hangsulyozom nem a volt politikai fomuftikra gondolok, hanem azon egyszeru emberek (ezrei)re, akiknek az elozo rendszer adott valamit (sok esetben nem is keveset, legalabbis a II. vh. elotti allapotokkal osszehasonlitva). Nekem speciel egyebkent a trockistakkal sincs semmi bajom - de meg egyszer elnezest az osszehasonlitasert. Egy csomo szempontbol en is a nyugat-europai modellt tartom kivanatosnak, mi tobb szerintem nagyon mas ut nem is volna jarhato. Azt hiszem ebben is egyetertunk. Amivel szerintem vigyazni kell Nyugat-Europaval kapcsolatban az pl. a kovetkezo: egy csomo sraccal talalkoztam itt es szinte egyseges velemenyuk Amerikanak, es ami talan igazan szomoru, az amerikaiaknak ugy "anblokk" lenezese, lekicsinylese. -> pl. "Primitiv kultura", "csapnivalo oktatas -> muveletlenseg", stb. - amikben persze van is egy adag igazsag..., de: az az arisztokratikus, orrat fennhordo, meg ma is totalisan Europa-kozpontu vilagkep valahogy nem igazan tetszik nekem. Mi joguk van ahhoz, hogy masik embercsoportra ilyen magas lorol nezzenek le? Arrol mar nem is beszelve, hogy mindezt persze konnyen tehetik, hatuk mogott a gorog-romai-kereszteny tarsadalomszervezesi kiserlet eredmenyeivel (aminek pedig meg maga az amerikai sztori is szerves resze...), ket es fel-harom evezrednyi hatterevel. Arrol elfeledkeznek, hogy ez az orszag alig tobb, mint 200 eve (europai) gyarmat volt - es azert eleg rovid ido alatt elertek egyet-mast. (No, csak hogy az "ujamerikaizmus"nak is adjunk egy kis helyet) Fair-e egyaltalan az osszehasonlitas? Kemeny vilag ez, olyan, mint egy masik bolygo sok szempontbol, legalabbis nekem ez volt az erzesem eloszor, mikor tavaly elkezdtem itt a sulit. "Heavy metal" kapitalizmus az itteni, alighanem igazuk van azoknak, akik szerint az igazi kulonbseg nem is Kelet es Nyugat kozott van, hanem Europa es az Ujvilag kozott. Mas. Az oreg Marx velemenye szerint ott lesz eloszor kommunizmus, ahol a termeloerok a legfejlettebbek (szo se volt Oroszorszagrol...). Lehet, hogy eppen itt az USA-ban fogjuk megerni azt, hogy visszakoszon rank a kommunizmus? Abban pedig kulonosen egyetertunk, hogy szukseg van arra, hogy ne essunk at a lo masik oldalara es figyeljunk az amerikai (es thatcherista) modell buktatoira es arnyoldalaira is. Az eremnek meg a mondasban is ket oldala van, hat meg a valosagban ... Tobbek kozott ezert szeretem irasaidat olvasni. Ezt annak ellenere mondom, hogy egy csomo kerdesben azert persze nyilvan nem ertunk egyet. Csak egy pelda, az oktatas itteni helyzete. Mit er a torvenyben (es papiron) megirt szabadsag, ha az emberek szamara az oktatas hibajabol maradnak zarva letfontossagu lehetosegek? Hogyan lehet valaki szabad, ha egy lenyegeben zart, szuk vilagban el szellemileg? Az otthoni altalanos es kozepiskolai (de meg a felsofoku) oktatas szinvonal irigylendoen magas az ittenihez kepest. Es ez szerintem az elozo rendszernek (volt) koszonheto, amit remelhetoen nem sikerul a mostani vezetesnek sem teljesen tonkretenni (csak, hogy teljes legyen az elhatarolodas az elmult 45 evtol...) Tetszett a megujithato energiaforrasok kutatasara es fejlesztesere iranyulo programrol szolo otleted. Bar lehetne talalni otthon ennek (es hasonloknak) kivitelezesere vallalkozokat, bankokat, kutato intezeteket, es kormanyzati tamogatast. Kulon koszonet az Altalad ajanlott konyvekert, ha lustasagom es idom engedi, remelem el is olvasom ezeket. Udv, Voros Peter^Z^Z =============================================== Felado : takacsi@cs.uchicago.edu Beerkezett: Tue Apr 9 02:05:10 EDT 1991 Temakor : Kommunistak - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =============================================== Felado : h1105dea@ella.hu Beerkezett: Tue Apr 9 06:18:27 EDT 1991 Temakor : ??? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Temakor: Gazdasag 1. Az elso negyedevi folyo fizetesi merleg /becslesek szerint/ 150 millio dollar magyar tobblettel zarul (szemben azzal a feltevessel, amit az IMF-el kotott szerzodes feltetelei kozott szerepel, vagyis hogy az egesz evben legfeljebb 1.2 milliard dollar hianyunk lehet). Persze ez meg nem sokat jelent, az igazi kerdes az az, hogy a szovjet piacra tavaly kiszallitott aruk mennyisege iden csak a felere csokken-e az egesz ev folyaman, vagy jobban. 2. Becsben ujra felment a forint ara (iden mar harmadszor), most 100 forintert 13.5 schillinget adnak. udv Deak Istvan 1991. ^]a'prilis 9 =============================================== Felado : heszler@61820 Beerkezett: Tue Apr 9 09:36:48 EDT 1991 Temakor : Pozsgay =es Demszky= - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - A Forumban kerekedett Pozsgay vitahoz szeretnek hozzaszolni s Vizvary Bela legutobbi irasara reflektalni. 1. Hogy Pozsgay "beepitett ember" volt-e diktatura utolso eveiben, azt nem tudom, viszont legjobb tudomasom szerint 56 utan roviddel mar megyei parttitkar volt, ahol nehezen tudom elkepzelni beepitett emberkent. Persze a megteres lehetoseget nem lehet tagadni, csak aztan azt nem tudom, kinek lett a beepitett embere. Viszont erre van egy tippem (egy baratomtol szarmazik), nevezetesen a KGB szervezhette be. 2. Hogy miert? Hat Gorbinak kellett egy reformkommunista, aki ezeket a regi sztalinistakat kisopri. Igy nyerhette el Pozsgay a "legtobbett tett az elozo rendszer szetvereseert" cimet, s a batorsagaert hogy elvallalta, egy kis tiszteletet is erdemel. 3. Hogy Pozsgay "veszelyes az uj elitre", azt nem lehet tagadni sajnos. Azert sajnos, mert ahogy en latom, megszervezik (Biroval) az egyeduli megvalto partot, s ha az emberek beveszik, akkor jajj az atalakulasnak. Azert jajj, mert az emberek ujra csalodnak, tudniillik az orszagot a kakibol igazan az otmillio dolgozo ember veres veriteke huzhatja ki, nem pedig par megvalto politikus. Itt persze meg lehet akadni, s mondani: a politikusok feladata ennek biztositasa. S en ugy gondolom, a parlament (s a rosszul mukodo kormany) a feltetelek egy nagy reszet mar megteremtette, s remelem a tobbit is meg fogja. 4. Az uj kezdemenyezesuk (Pozsgay es Biro) mogott az en velemenyem szerint az all, hogy nem birjak elviselni azt, most ok nem vezerkolomposok. Vegezetul egy erdekes momentumra szeretnem a figyelmet rairanyitani mit tesz a hatalom az emberrel (illetve az ember hogyan hagyja magat befolyasolni a hatalom altal). Nevezetesen Liptak Bela "Szegeny Budapest" (elozo FORUM) irasaban fordul elo az altalam eddig tisztelt LIBERALIS DEMOKRATA Demszky Gabor kijelentese: "a fovarosnal senki sem kereshet tobbet, mint o" (vagyis Demszky). Mintha szulohelyem (korabbi Leninvaros) sztalinista vezetoinek a varosban mindenki altal tudott (persze nem hivatalos) mondasainak szelleme csendulne ki Demszky Gabor szavaibol. Tisztelettel Peter (Heszler) heszler@kemist.uu.se Uppsala =============================================== Felado : pardavi@seas.gwu.edu Beerkezett: Tue Apr 9 12:33:22 EDT 1991 Temakor : sajto=szemle=Zwack - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Szubjektiv szemelve'nyek a Washington Post Aprilis 9-ei STYLE (=ta'rsasa'gi) rovata'bo'l: "HUNGARY"S EMBASSY SQUABBLE" Unreasoned Diplomat Peter Zwack Dismissed By peter Maass Budapest, April 8 Peter Zwack, the dapper celebrity businessman who last year renounced his U.S. citizenship to accept an appointment as Hungary's ambassador the the United States, has been ordered to step down just seven months after arriving in Washington. His dismissal, finally acknowledged by government officials here after after weeks of rumours in the local press, appears to be part of an intriguing struggle stretching form the Potomac to the Danube and involving claims of back-stabbing, incompetence and professional jealousy. Details of the diplomatic dispute are still murky. What is clear is that the embassy is in embarrassing disarray at a time when it must play a key role in gaining U.S. support for Hungary"s transition to democracy and capitalism. The dismissal appears to stem from a rivalry between the ambassador and Eniko Bollobas, the strongwilled woman who is his deputy chief of mission. Some officials in BUdapest claim that Zwack - who remains at his post until a successor is named this summer - is being fired because he lacks the skills and knowledge necessary for Hungary's most sensitive diplomatic post. But others claim the problem is not Zwack but Bollobas, who they contend is manipulative is manipulative, ambitious politician unsuited for a job requiring tact and discretion. discretion. ..... Because of Zwack's fame in Hungary - he'd entertained offers to run for parliamnet, president parliament, president and other national positions - and his good contacts in the U.S., he won the job even though he had no diplomatic experience. In such acase the government might be expected to appoint a seasoned diplomat as the deputy chief of the mission - someone who can ensure that the embassy runs smoothly while the rookie ambassador schmoozes with his powerful friends. But Prime Minister Josef Antall and Foreign Minister Geza Jeszenszky opted to name on e of their close political allies, Eniko Bollobas, a professor of American studies with no diplomatic experience. Because of Hungary's sweeping political changes in the pat year, many of the prime minister's prime minister's key officilas are, like him, academics. It reflects a problem that the new that the new governments in Eastern Europe all face: They want to create new political and diplomatic systems, with new people. IT CAN BE A RECIPE FOR ERRORS. (kiemeles tolem) Zwack ... said: "Bollobas, who he said was professionally envious of him and his stylish and energetic British wife Anne, a former Pucci model.... ... Bolobas denied... ....."Hungarian newspapers have reported that Zwack's firing is also partly tied to need to free the ambassadoral post for foreign minister Jeszenszky, whose reputation suffered from his alleged approval of an recent illegal arms sale to the breakaway Yugoslav republic of Croatia. ....Jeszenszky needs a graceful exit." The foreign Minisyry has denied that Jeszenszky wants the Washington job. ...."Hungary's opposition, which itself is virtually devoid of govenment experience, is likely to portray the Zwack affair as another misstep by Antall. He has reshuffled his cabinet once already and fended off opposition calls for the resignation of... ministers..." Comments: 1. Otthoni pletyka: Zwack said: Bollobas egy MDF pa'rt komissza'r a kovetse'gen 2. Altalabn be lehet szallni a kovetsegiek kontenerjeibe hazautazaskor. Ugy nez ki , mostanaban lesz hely. =============================================== Felado : 72600.3046@compuserve.com Beerkezett: Tue Apr 9 18:43:52 EDT 1991 Temakor : Au revoir= mes amis. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ...from the margins - media watch V. Ezt meg vasarnap kuldtem el, de valahol elveszett. Ket reszre vagtam mert lehet, hogy tul hosszu volt es valamelyik gateway v. server nem szerette. Radios hir a Tipp-bol: Tulzottan optimistak voltak a magyar vallalatok abbeli remenyei, hogy komoly reszt vallalhatnak Kuvait ujjaepiteseben. Egyebek kozt ez hangzott el a parlament gazdasagi bizottsaganak mai ulesen. Mint a Nemzetkozi Gazdasagi Kapcsolatok Miniszteriumanak illetekese kozolte, a magyar cegek valoszinuleg csak amerikai vallalatok beszallitoi lehetnek, minthogy az Egyesult Allamok elsosorban sajat gazdasagat kivanja bevonni a tobb milliard dollar erteku ujjaepitesbe. Az erem masik oldala: Settling accounts: Who gets what in the post-war grab for contracts and oil? As a result of the Gulf war, U.S. business has tightened its bonds with the Kuwaiti and Saudi regimes. Immediate benefits will flow to arms manufacturers, banks, reconstruction contractors and oil companies. But in the long run, it is unclear whether the Bush administration's plan to regain economic dominance through military hegemony will succeed. Weapons makers are the most obvious beneficiaries of the Gulf war. After years of lackluster performance, eight of the leading U.S. arms contractors saw their stock value rise by $5.3 billion in the month after the war began. ...American banks also stand to benefit from the war. With Kuwait now a virtual U.S. protectorate and Saudi rulers more dependent on U.S. support than before, the huge petrodollar surpluses of these low-population countries are certain to flow even more heavily into American banks. The American banking system has been sorely ailing from its inability to raise capital. A joke circulating in recent weeks said the allience between the U.S. and Kuwait was fortuitous because Kuwait was a banking system without a country, while the U.S. was a country without a banking system. Citicorp got a taste of the benefits of this allience when, in late 1990, Saudi Prince Al Waleed bin Talal paid $590 million to buy 4.9 percent of its common stock. This was a sizable fraction of the $1 billion to $1.5 billion in capital that Citicorp needed to raise. A broad array of construction and manufacturing firms are poised to benefit from the rebuilding of Kuwait. Recent estimates of the cost range from $50 billion to $100 billion, which rivals the entire $70 billion cost, at today's prices, of Marshall Plan aid to Western Europe after World War II. It will be a bonanza for construction companies, as well as firms that manufacture equipment for telecommunications, transportation, power and oil drilling. American firms are expected to get the great bulk of the Kuwait contracts, without having to face the usual competition from European and Japanese rivals. About 70 percent of the contracts awarded to date have gone to American companies. This is not surprising, given that Kuwait asked the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to decide who gets the reconstruction contracts. Business Week (February 18) reported diplomatic sources as saying secret agreements between the U.S. and Kuwaiti government specify U.S. companies will get preference in contracts. It said further that Kuwait reversed its choice of Britain's Crown Agents as a major participant in reconstruction contracts after Washington complained. Last, but not least, U.S.- and British-based oil companies stand to gain from the war. They favor oil prices high enough to assure substantial crude-oil profits but not so high as to undermine Western economic prosperity (which underlies the market for plastics and other petroleum derivatives ***) nor so high as to stimulate alternative-fuels development or "excessive" energy conservation measures. The target price of $20 a barrel is often mentioned as achieving those aims. ... The complex web of economic threads among the U.S., Kuwait and Saudi Arabia has been woven more tightly by the Gulf crisis and war. Say, for example, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia sell oil to the U.S. and put the oil earnings in U.S. banks, which then lend to them to finance reconstruction. The Saudis and Kuwaitis contract with Bechtel for the improvements; the Saudis also buy stock (or already have stock, perhaps) in U.S. banks and oil companies and Bechtel, so that they get back a return on the money they pay out. Round and round she goes; where she stops nobody knows. ...But this "tribute state" strategy seems more appropriate to ancient times than to the capitalist era. Today, economic strength leads to military and political strength, not vice versa--at least over the long run. It would seem that a militarized America cannot arrest its relative economic decline. If the peace dividend permanently vanishes, America may eventually lose even its armsproducing and military strength to rivals that devote their resources to educating their citizens, maintaining their infrastructures and developing products that people want. David Kotz (professor of economics, University of Mass.) Mehrene Larudee (Center for Popular Economics) Fenti idezet csak egy kis izelito a chicagoi kiadasu (nagy levegot!) b a l o l d a l i In These Times hetilapbol. (O.K., idaig tuleltem, let's go on. De mi ez a zaj? Mintha ravasz kattanasat hallanam!) En foleg az ujsag kulturalis rovatait szoktam brauzolni. Azt is elsosorban Pat Aufderheide - az orszag altalam legjobbnak itelt filmesztetajanak es media kritikusanak - irasai miatt. Persze a tobbi cultural coverage is jo. Az e heti szamban pl. ket ujabban megjelent es fontos kozgazdasagi temaju konyv elemzese talalhato (Robert Reich, The Work of Nations: Preparing Ourselves for 21st Century Capitalism es Robert Kuttner, The End of Laissez-Faire: National Purpose and the Global Economy After the Cold War). Ugyanitt egy erdekes cikk a pornografia-vitarol. Check it out, meeen! Impresszum: In These Times, 2040 N. Milwaukee Ave., Chicago, IL 60647 Subs: $34.95 a year ($59 for institutions), $75.95 overseas. In These Times believes that to guarantee our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, Americans must take greater control over our nation's basic economic and foreign policy decisions. We believe in a socialism that fulfills rather than subverts the promise of American democracy, where social needs and rationality, not corporate profit and greed, are the operative principles. Our pages are open to a wide range of views, socialist and nonsocialist, liberal and conservative. % =============================================== Felado : 72600.3046@compuserve.com Beerkezett: Tue Apr 9 18:46:00 EDT 1991 Temakor : Au revoir= mes amis II. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Media watch V., Part II. (The return of the killer shoe-lace) Nemreg jutott el hozzam a 168 ora februar 12-i szama. Ebben talaltam egy erdekes cikket, amiben Gyorgy Peter eszteta velemenyet kerdeztek ki arrol, hogy milyen az Obol-valsag CNN altal kozvetitett valtozatanak a szellemi hatasa. Nehany gondolata: "...En ugy gondolom, hogy a televizio alantas, es hogy ez egy uj felvonas kezdete. A cel az, hogy a feherek televizioja - amely enszerintem mar hosszu evtizedek ota ezt teszi - fonntartsa a feher ember informacios uralmat a harmadik vilag folott. Gondoljunk csak vissza, hogy amikor Szaddam Husszein par evvel ezelott ugyanezekkel a mergesgazokkal elintezte a kurdokat, akkor egy-ket sohajon kivul senki nem pirult el tulsagosan. Szoval, ezt az uralmat egyszeruen fonn kell tartani, es szorakoztatni kell az embereket. Es a szorakoztatasnak az egyik legjobb formaja, ha hirnek alcazom. Ugyanis a szappanoperanak is az a lenyege, hogy olyan interakcioba, olyan kommunikacios helyzetbe bocsatkozom, amelyikben valojaban vedve vagyok. A szappanopera, ugye, olyan, mint az elet, csakhogy en otthon ulok a fotelemben, olyan, mintha beszelgetnek, de nem is kell beszelgetnem, meg se kell szolalnom. Igazi, rendes leselkedes. ...En azt hiszem - es ettol olyan rettenetesen gusztustalan nekem ez az egesz, ami tortenik -, hogy ez az elso olyan haboru, amelyik mikozben az egyik oldalon keresztes hadjaratnak allitja be magat (amit egyebkent a Szentatya, teljes joggal, ketsegbe vont), ekozben eleget tesz a szorakoztatas igenyeinek is. Es eddig meg azert az sohasem volt, hogy "mulattassunk haboruval". Az, ha a televizio beszall a szorakoztatasba, show-business. Ha beszall a haboruba, az egy uj alternativa. Eddig az volt, hogy egy-egy sztar odament, es mulattatta a katonakat. Most megfordult a dolog: most a katonak mulattatjak az otthoni lakossagot." A Harper's Magazine nem igazan alternativ, hanem inkabb liberalis ertelmisegi es yupscale (yuppie + upscale) retegujsag, de ennek marciusi szamaban van egy cikk, ami a fenti temaval rezonal. Az ujsag ket media kritikust ugrasztott ossze - egyikuk kep/T.V. parti, a masik az irott szo oldalan all. Kis reszlet a parbeszedukbol: Camille Paglia: The Second Commandment implies that the Hebrew God has no shape, that He is pure spirit. Egyptian gods often appeared in animal form. The pagan cults of Egypt, Babylon, and Canaan worshiped such idols--for example, the Golden Calf. So Moses is saying, "We do not worship the gods of nature but a God who is above nature, a God who created nature. The ultimate God." And the prohibition against graven images didn't forbid just pagan idols. It banned all visual imagery, of anything on earth or in the heavens. Moses knew that once a people begin to make images of any kind, they fall in love with them and worship them. Historically, the Second Commandment diverted Jewish creative energy away from the visual arts and into literature, philosophy, and law. Neil Postman: It is curious that of the first three, so-called establishing commandments, two of them concern communications: the prohibitions against making graven images and taking the Lord's name in vain. Yet this makes sense if you think about the problems of constructing an ethical system 3,000 years ago. It was critical to tell the members of the tribe how to symbolize their experience. That is why Moses chose writing--using a phonetic alphabet, which the Jews no doubt borrowed from the Egyptians--to conceptualize this nonvisual, nonmaterial God. Writing is the perfect medium because, unlike pictures or an oral tradition, the written word is a symbol system of a symbol system, twice removed from reality and perfect for describing a God who is also far removed from reality: a nonphysical, abstracted divinity. Moses smartly chose the right communications strategy. With the Second Commandment, Moses was the first person who ever said, more or less, "Don't watch TV; go do your homework." Most important, the written word allows for the development of a God who is, above all things, mobile. To invent a God who exists only in the word and through the word is to make a God that can be taken anyplace. Just as writing is portable speech, Moses' God is a portable God, which is fitting for a people setting forth on a long journey. [...] Postman: I remember the imagery of the 1940s, when the entire political machine was pressed into the service of imagistic propaganda. In America it is somewhat different. There is a machine producing such images, but it is capitalism, and the output is the commercial. The process is the same. Have you seen the commercial for Hebrew National frankfurters? It shows Uncle Sam while a narrator declares how good and healthy frankfurters are because Uncle Sam maintains such high standards. Then Uncle Sam looks up as the narrator adds that Hebrew Nationals are even better than other frankfurters because they must answer to a higher authority. Paglia: I love that ad! It's wonderful. Hilarious. Postman: Here is what bothers me. Symbols are infinitely repeatable, but they are not inexhaustible. If you use God to sell frankfurters, or if you use the face of George Washington to sell discount car tires, you drain the symbol of the very meanings, Camille, that you so astutely discover and explicate in your book. Paglia: I would argue exactly the opposite. In the Hebrew National ads the invocation of Uncle Sam and God reinforces their symbolic meaning and helps young people have a historical perspective on their own culture. Ads shaped the imagination of my generation. The Hebrew National image of Jehovah--that he's invisible, a voice inspiring his children to high standards--is faithful to tradition. Postman: Perhaps you're not taking it seriously enough, Camille. By age twenty, the average American has seen 800,000 television advertisements, about 800 a week. Paglia: To you, coming from the Judeo-Christian tradition, this looks secular. If you look at it from my perspective, popular culture is an eruption of paganism--which is also a sacred style. In your book, you skip from 1920 to television. I think you leap over a critical period--the great studio era of Hollywood movies in the 1930s and 1940s. Cinema then was a pagan cult full of gods and goddesses, glamour and charisma. It was a style devoted to the sacred and the numinous. So it's not that the sacred has been lost or is being trivialized. We are steeped in idolatry. The sacred is everywhere. I don't see any secularism. It's a rebirth of the pagan gods. What I argue in my book is that Judeo-Christianity never defeated paganism but rather drove it underground, from which it constantly erupts in all kinds of ways. Ancient Greco-Roman culture harnessed the dynamic duality of the Apollonian and the Dionysian principles. We've inherited the Apollonian element of the Greco-Roman tradition. The history of Western civilization has been a constant struggle between those two impulses, an unending tennis match between cold Apollonian categorization and Dionysian lust and chaos. [...] Postman: Here is what I would like: When our young student is watching Dan Rather say that 5,000 people died in an earthquake in Chile and then Dan says, "We'll be right back after this word from United Airlines," I would like our student to say, "Hey, wait a second, how could he ask me to make such an emotional switch?" Paglia: My answer is this: Buddha smiles. He sees the wheel of reincarnation and accepts the disasters of the universe. That's the way it should be. There's no way we can possibly extend our compassion to 5,000 dead people. By juxtaposing such jarring images, TV is creating a picture of the world that is simply true to life. We are forced to contemplate death the way farmers do--as just another banal occurrence, no big deal. Nature can crack the earth open and swallow thousands, and then the sun shines and the birds sing. It's like going from an airplane crash to a hemorrhoids ad. In TV, as in nature, all have equal weight. Postman: What I am focusing on is our emotional response to those things. We all know that nurses who work in hospitals make jokes. They see the absurdity of death routinely. But they don't see anywhere near the number of deaths the television viewer sees. What I see as dangerous here is a discontinuity of emotion that television promotes, its unnatural evocation, every five minutes, of different and incompatible emotions. Paglia: By moving from disaster to commercial, TV creates the effect of Greek tragedy: emotion, then detachment; contemplation of loss, then philosophical perspective. At the end of Hamlet, there are four corpses strewn all over the stage. ...I know that you see "amusement" as a bad thing wherever it shows up. You said in your book that teaching has finally been reduced to a branch of popular entertainment and that students won't sit still for anything that's not as funny as Big Bird on Sesame Street. Postman: What worries me is that if school becomes so overwhelmed by entertainment's metaphores and metaphysics, then it becomes not content-centered but attention-centered, like television, chasing "ratings" or class attendence. If school becomes that way, then the game may be lost, because school is using the same approach, epistemologically, as television. Instead of being something different from television, it is reduced to being just another kind of television. Mint minden jo vitaban, amelyik elgondolkodtato, itt is mindig annak a felnek az erveit hittem el, amelyik eppen beszelt. Ez a parbeszed vegig ilyen, ajanlom elolvasasra. % Talan nem kell magyaraznom, hogy ezeknek az alternativ kiadvanyoknak a bemutatasaval senkit nem kivanok lebeszelni kedvenc ujsagjanak olvasasarol. Csak annyit probaltam erzekeltetni, hogy ennek az orszagnak is van szamos kritikusan gondolkodo ertelmisegije, akik velemenyukkel es nezeteikkel a mainstream media szurojen fennakadnak, es ezert hangjukat itt hallatjak. Nekem legalabbis ugy tunik, miota ezeket es egyeb publikaciokat is olvasgatom, hogy ennek az orszagnak sokat szidott szellemi elete joval gazdagabb annal mint ami a mainstream mediabol es kivulrol latszik. Ezzel a levellel en most egy idore leteszem a lantot, es csatlakozom a Forum "silent majority"-jehez. Uj munkahelyem ugyanis nemi extra tanulast es koncentraciot igenyel, es az utobbi idoben a forumozas meg enelkul is kezdett a felesegemmel es ket kisgyerekemmel toltott ido rovasara menni. Kivanok mindenkinek tovabbi kellemes forumozast, lehetoleg minel kevesebb ad hominem perpatvarral, inkabb - hogy gyulolt klasszikusunkat idezzem - az eszmek csapjanak ossze, a baratsag szellemeben. A bientot, j'espere, Leirer Laszlo "***": What you gonna do - when the river runs dry Put your drills in the mud - and death up in the sky You should have saved those bottles - You should have saved those cans You shouldn't ought'a listen to the plastic man And there's no more toilet paper - it's gone just like the trees Do you like the taste of honey - isn't it best without the bees Be careful what you're doing - you're messing up my life And if all the world's a cake - then you cut too big a slice What's it all about - they scream and then they shout Don't ask me - cause I don't know What's it all about - they scream and then they shout Don't blame me - I told you so You read it in the papers - you hear it on the news Very few listen - a spew without a view And is it really worth it - choking on remote I can see the red tide coming - but we don't even vote Infection in the greenhouse - dizzy in the clouds Oily as an ocean - haven disemboweled Still planning on a future - well lucky for some You can develop your body - but your mind is still a slum The product in the packaging - of multi-layered glam 150 layers of materials - to cover up a sham Protecting my planet - wrap it in plastic The package is product - perfected eternal A crap in a cling wrap I never yet met a prime minister or president Who told the truth yet Swimming in the slurry - burning in the heat Wind blown is the weather - I eat what you secrete Climb the highest derrick - this circus has no prayer No UFO to save us - and do we really care Kiss goodbye to the earth, the sun, the moon It's easy to deceive a child Don't ask me - Public Image Ltd. (Johny Rotten) (Gyermekeim kedvenc rock szama - talan a kovetkezo nemzedekre szamithatunk, vagy ez csak wishful thinking?) U.I. Most olvastam Bodor Geza levelet. Azert erre meg lehet, hogy valaszolok. Csak give me a break: legalabb az ado papirokat hadd toltsem ki, hetfon van a hatarido! =============================================== Felado : diana.vorsatz@brunel.ac.uk Beerkezett: Tue Apr 9 18:46:07 EDT 1991 Temakor : egy populista vallomasai - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Csak azt nem tudom pontosan, a korszakallas es farmeroltonyos; a simakepu es tultaplalt, netan a baboskendos emancipalt kategoriat kepviselem. Mindenessetre ugy erzem, epp eleg szegyen, hogy a fene nagy liberalizmus kitoreset arra hasznaljuk, hogy egymas szemet kikaparjuk. Szerintem ez egyaltalan nem olyan vicces, hogy meg akinek szerencseje volt nyugodtan aludnia Majlath Mikes Laszlo MNbeli muremekevel valo karambolt elkerulven, annak a szamara is be kellett masolni. Szerinted nem ettol lettel tipikus magyar (===populista) [egyelore meg csak percenkent 1, de ha tegnapi tipplevelem megfelelo sebesseggel olvasod, tan becsusszanok a "ketkulacsos-elhajlo-baloldali ingadozo fiokba], hogy felderulo arccal kaptal a botrany-szagon, es egy jo, kover cinikusat csamcsogtal rajta?? Epp eleg hulye UjRekesz van, miert kell meg mondvanagyitott alkonfliktusokkal tovabb osztani magunkat?