Roman Kanala wrote:
>
> Some information that might be of interest to whom it may concern:
>
> The new Chair of the Board of Governors at the University of Carleton
> is Dr. Ivan Fellegi.
>
> For more information, see the page at URL
>
> http://www.carleton.ca/cu/twac/fe1/s9.html
> Interview: Meet Dr. Ivan Fellegi, Chair of the Board
>
> For the administrative organisation at the Carleton University
> (may be out of date), see:
>
> gopher://ernest.carleton.ca:406/11/root-all/general/adoffices
>
> Also on the Carleton University gopher:
>
> Officers of Instruction, as of July 1, l996
>
> Out of 19 Professors and Associate Professors at the School of
> Journalism and Communication, Carleton University, there is only one
> with a BA degree (same level as Ms. Szurek's) and it is - Mr. George
> Frajkor.  The rest have of course Masters and Doctorates.
>
> Mr. Frajkor is signing his message with a baroque signature that states
> he is at School af Journalism, that lead several contributors to express
> their astonishment about his journalist qualities. In fact, this .sig
> information is not correct. The correct name of the organisational unit
> is "School of Journalism and Communication".
>
> Moreover, Mr. Frajkor is not a journalist, but according to the gopher
> information, he is specialised in "Animation and electronic techniques
> in television".
>
> Perhaps the explanation why he is displaying such a level of ignorance
> of the basic rules of scholar work (yes, FACTS !) and astonishing lack
> of just plain scientific ethics.
>
> Mr. Frajkor is using the computer equipment of the University.
>
> Mr. Frajkor has been caught deliberately spreading false informations
> about listmembers (see a few recent articles in Slovak-L). Mr. Frajkor
> is running a fascist mailing list. Mr. Frajkor is tolerating, approving
> or even actively participating in deeds like defamation, expressions of
> racial and national hate, calls for intolerance. For more details, look
> in Slovak-L.
>
> Regarding the the policies of computer use at Carleton, Cf.  URL
> gopher://ernest.carleton.ca:406/00/root-all/uni-policies/
> Policies_regarding_Computers/onet
>
> > Uses that fall under one of the following descriptions are, in
> > general, not acceptable.
> >
> > ( ... )
> >
> > 3.  Uses that are considered by the ONet Management Committee to be
> > malicious or unethical.
> >
> > 4.  Uses that violate federal or provincial laws.
>
> Just thought this information might be of interest to the Internet
> community.
>
> Roman Kanala

I am a sometime surveyor of this list and am astounded at the increasing
level of animosity from Mr. Kanala towards Mr. Frajkor.  This last post
amounts to a personal attack, has crossed a line of decency.  It does
not have any relevance to the spirit of this list, and Mr. Kanala, you
seem amazingly unconcerned about this fact.

If the idea of picking apart Mr. Frajkor's credentials was to convince
others that your arguments about Slovak history are more sound, it is
nothing but an ad hominum attack anyway.  True scholars would laugh at
you.

Perhaps, Mr. Kanala, you would be happier if you took a break from all
this talk, made yourself a tea, and watched some TV or listened to some
nice music.  Too much bile is bad for a person's health.

Peter Knazko
Kanata, Ontario

In article >
 (Frank Bures) writes:
>From:  (Frank Bures)
>Subject: Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L
>Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:57:36 GMT

>In >, (Paul
Zapletal) writes:
>>On Aug 30, 1996 17:42:27 in article <Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of
>>Slovak-L>,  (Kristina Szurek)' wrote:
>>
>>>:Mr. Kanala
>>
>>>Kristina Szurek
>>
>>>: First of all, Miss Kristina Szurek is neither a professional nor a :
>>scholar.
>>>
>>>Very nice intro :-) your ignorance is aparent from the very first line of
>>your
>>>posting.  An achievement of a Bachelor degree consists of 4 years of
>>full-time
>>>studies which in my book is a scholar. I have worked for various agencies
>>
>>>throughout Toronto before (full time) and during my studies (part-time,
>>>summers), and am currently self-employed.  You may have doubts about me
>>being a
>>>professional, but my clients don't.
>>>
>>
>>Dear Ms Szurek
>>
>>Congratulations,  obtaining a BA degree is without doubt an achievment at
>>York University.  And
>>I have no doubt that it was a hard work.  When you get out into a real
>>world you will most likely
>>find out that the word professional,  in the field of psychology, means
>>somebody who has a Master
>>degree or a Doctorate.   These people, once they prove that they are
>>competent, are issued
>>licences that allow them to practice and arrive to conclusions or
>>diagnosis.  To protect the
>>general public, these licences can be revoked.  In the real world you will
>>also find out that the
>>word scholar is reserved for professionals who distinguished themselves
>>more than others by
>>studying a lot, publishing scientific papers, books and who have proven
>>themselves.  This
>>distinction is given to them by their peers in the field.
>>For all  these reasons I think that Mr. Kanala was right in his
>>observations on your use of
>>words professional and scholar.   In fact, had you been a licenced
>>professional and made
>>a "professional advice' in a public forum, as you did in your previous
>>post, your carrier
>>would probably be over.  By no means I am suggesting that you should not
>>take pride in
>>your important work.  I only sincerely hope that you are taking a totally
>>different approach,
>>when working with these unfortunate kids, than the one that you exhibit
>>here.
>>
>>>: This girl just obtained (June 1996) a Bachelor degree in Child
>>>: psychology from York University
>>>I do not know where you get your information from, but the information is
>>
>>>incorrect.
>>
>>Incorrect?   Are you denying the very Bachelor degree that you were so
>>proud
>>of a minute ago?    Is it not a fact that on June 25, 1996 you have
>>advertised yourself on usenet in misc. kids and crossposted the message
>>in numerous related newsgroup fora with the following: " I have just
>>graduated
>>from York University with the Bachelor degree (BA) in Psychology...".
>>And you made it known already that you specialize in child behavior.
>>You seem to be confused now about your credentials.
>>Maybe you should go back to York University and consult preferably with
>>some Associate Professor with a BA degree as to what kind of diploma is
>>really hanging on your wall.   If you decide to go back to school, it will
>>have some real advantage.  Yes, then you will be able to keep your E-mail
>>address past the six month period.
>>
>>>Sorry, I didn't finish the rest of your posting, it got too boring. Big
>>words,
>>>no content....it's called BULL SHIT in our university dictionary.
>>
>>Ouch!!!   What a finish    You don't mean York University!  But then, you
>>do
>>not have any other university (using your words) in your book.
>>Sorry, but you  blew it completely.

>FYI:

>York University has such a reputation in Canada that the only two
>schools that are any good do not even have "York University" in
>their names. They call themselves Osgood Hall (law school) and
>Schulich School of Business. York University is very close in
>quality to another Toronto's aberration Ryerson Quasitechnical
>University, where quite large group of lecturers obtained their PhD's
>in Hungary in 6 months and for $10,000 fee.

Do not forget that Ryeson PROFESSOR peddling his bony ass as a prostitute -
what was his name? Hannon?

Rosta





>Frank Bures, Dept. of Chemistry, University of Toronto, ON, M5S 3H6

>
>Dear Ms Szurek
>
>Congratulations,  obtaining a BA degree is without doubt an achievment at
>York University.  And
>I have no doubt that it was a hard work.  When you get out into a real
>world you will most likely
>find out that the word professional,  in the field of psychology, means
>somebody who has a Master
>
> ....... etc.... etc......
>
>Paul Zapletal
>

Pan Doktor Zapletal,

Are you sure degrees are necessary to have the right to speak and to be trusted
?
We have here in our government many ministers who did so much studies they are
so proud of they are unable to do anything. Another prime minister 4 years ago
only had o-levels, and was much more aware of the needs of ordinary people.

In general there has been a terrible atmosphere on this newsgroup for a month,
a place for exchange has turn to a place for fight.
A first thing studies ought to teach is a bit of humility, and I often ask
myself why people keep on replying on the same subject which is obviously not
going to end anywhere.
If one day all these people fancy meeting at a cafe in Blava to have a
real-world discussion, it will be funny. Tell me, I'll turn up (and listen
only, not being qualified to speak, because my PhD is only half-way through.)

Marc .

It's now for the third time that Mr. Frajkor has innocently asked
for concrete examples of racist hate messages on "his" list.

This one has been written more than a week ago. There were indignated
replies, no reaction from Mr. Frajkor, listowner. A gentleman who
protested got an extremely vulgar response from the Bachelor Szurek,
scholar character as if coming from a midnight lady on the pavement.

Mr. Frajkor, listowner, did not react to the first message, despite
the hate character and clear anti-semite connotation.

However, Mr. Frajkor has once again publicly appreciated Ms. Szurek's
performance and her efficiency in fighting the enemy, all decency aside.
This is a standard feature in accross the Mr. Frajkor's listowner record
and more about this topic will be brought to Slovak-L list.

Mr. Frajkor is running a racist and national hate spreading mailing list
using the listserver at the Buffalo University, NY. He is contributing
using the computer equipment of the Carleton University and putting the
University name into the signature, giving to his contributions an official
character.

Are the expressions of anti-semitism, extreme nationalism and hatred
really the official policy at the Carleton University ?

Roman Kanala

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:      mR. A Albu - SMRDIS CESNAKOM !
Date:         Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:03:49 -0700
From:         
Organization: http://www.vir.com/~henry/
Newsgroups:   bit.listserv.slovak-l


Mr A Albu, len pre Vasu informaciu neviem preco tu znecistujete ovzdusie
vasimi proti Slovenskymi recami. Ked sa Vam nasa spolocnost nepaci mate
otvorene dvere do vsetkych vasim podobnim NewsGroups na Internete. Ja
nechodim citat odkazy do NewsGroups s ktorymi nesuhlasim, robia to len
kreteni !

Bye Henry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a public service, the translation (grammar errors included):


Subject: mR. A Albu - YOU ARE STINKING OF GARLIC !
Date:         Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:03:49 -0700
From:         
Newsgroups:   bit.listserv.slovak-l

Mr. A Albu, for your information only I don't know why do you
pollute the athmosphere with your anti Slovak talkings. If our
company does not please you, you have the door open to all NewsGroups
on the Internet that are similar to you. I don't go to read messages
to NewsGroups with which I do not agree, only cretens do !

Bye Henry.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:      Re: mR. A Albu - SMRDIS CESNAKOM !
Date:         Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:54:05 GMT
From:         Kristina Szurek >
Reply-To:     
Organization: York University
Newsgroups:   bit.listserv.slovak-l

Martin Lewinski ) wrote:
: > Mr A Albu, len pre Vasu informaciu neviem preco tu znecistujete ovzdusie
: > vasimi proti Slovenskymi recami. Ked sa Vam nasa spolocnost nepaci mate
: > otvorene dvere do vsetkych vasim podobnim NewsGroups na Internete. Ja
: > nechodim citat odkazy do NewsGroups s ktorymi nesuhlasim, robia to len
: > kreteni !
: >
:   Nastartujte si tu vasu virtualnu karu a vyrazte do sveta!Prizvite
:   na vylet aj panov Gazdika a Frajkora, na kolienkach Vam moze
:   usadnut napr.Kristinka Szurek a cestou sa rozmyslavo pozerajte navokol.
:   Azda zistite, ze propagacia fasizmu je trestna, to viete tento
:   mierumilovny svet, vsakze ?
:
Drahy pan Kokot Lewinski je mi luto ze nevies citat po Slovensky, ale
Mr. Alban, ktory smrdi cesnakom, bol ten ktory propagoval nenavist
a superioritu voci jednotlivcom a narodom, co je tak isto trestne.  Neviem
odkial mas tie reci o fasizme, ale uz si pomaly zvykam na vsetky tie
blbosti co sa rodia v tvojej gebuli.  Lepsie by si stravil cas keby si
sa dal na kolienka a odprosil Slovensky narod za odpustenie.

[Sorry to those that have to read this, I usually try to post productive
postings, but Mr. Lewinski is communicating through insults on the 'Net.
His intelligence is preventing him from understanding any other
form of discussion.]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

(parts of human anatomy in the salutation ...)

... Mr. Alban, who stinks the garlic...

... I am slowly getting used to all the non-sense born in your damnhead...


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:    Re: Isn't she lovely... ?
Date:       Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:24:28 EDT
From:       George Frajkor >
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l


Ross Hedvicek writes:

 re: Szurek

> Isn't she a lovely loser?
> Rosta

       She is indeed a lovely. And so far she's winning.


    Jan George Frajkor                      _!_
 School of Journalism, Carleton Univ.      --!--
 1125 Colonel By Drive                       |
 Ottawa, Ontario                            /^\
 Canada K1S 5B6                         /^\     /^\
       /   
  o: 613 520-7404   fax: 613 520-6690  h: 613 563-4534
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eva:

You still did not get my caution. What I was concerned with is your use of
"Slovaks" and "Romanians" rather than the governments of those countries.
There are many Slovaks and Romanians who are not endorsing any disrimantory
practices of their governments.
I do not think it is appropriate to claim that the Hungarian government
caved in to "Slovaks" and "Romanians". It may have caved in to the
Slovakian and Romanian governments.

Regards,Jeliko.

> At 02:29 PM 9/3/96 PDT, Jeliko wrote:
> >Eva Balogh writes:
> >
> >>. In this case as well as in the Slovak-Hungarian case, I really
> >> don't know whether Hungary did cave in to the Slovaks and the
Romanians
> >as
> >> some people claim or whether these treaties are the best the country
can
> >> sign. In the Romanian case it is obvious to me that the Hungarians are
> >not
> >> the only ones who are unhappy. It seems that certain Romanians, like
> >Funar,
> >> are also furious.
> >
> >Just a note of caution. You are using countries and people
> >interchangably, while actually discussing an issue that involves
respective
> >governments. I think it is fair to say that some of those government's
> >activities do not necessarily represent the ideas of their populations.

>         This is certainly true but two governments agreed to sign an
> agreement. Surely, both parties made some compromises. For example, if I
> recall, Romania originally refused to include the controversial reference
to
> any kind of autonomy. Be that cultural or otherwise. Yet, eventually this
> paragraph was included. I am also sure that the Hungarian government,
most
> likely as a result of pressure from the Hungarian minority organizations
in
> Romania, wanted to have a wider interpretation of the autonomy clause. At
> the end, they had to agree to a narrower interpretation. Surely, the
> Hungarian and Romanian cabinets agreed that the text as it stands
acceptable
> to them.

>         Now comes the reaction of the certain segments of the population
in
> each country. The Hungarian opposition parties and certain Romanian
parties
> dislike the provisions of the treaty. For example, Funar's party. Or, in
> Hungary, Torgyan's party. Then comes the populations themself. I am
certain
> that there are people in both countries who find the treaty provisions
> unacceptable. The question is how large percentages of the populations
are
> against the treaty. I am sure, at least in Hungary, we will find out soon
> enough. Hungarians adore taking opinion polls.

>         Eva Balogh

Mark asked:

What is your suggestion for the curing of madcow disease?  Prayer?
>>>
Yes! In fact Matthew Cragoe, sr. lecturer of British History, univ.. of
Herefordshire said:
Cattles plagues in this country are nothing new. Exactly 130 years ago, in
the early months of 1866, the nation was gripped by panic as rinderpost
[cattle plague] cut a deadly swathe through the kingdom/s horned
population. Within eight months, three times as many cattle had died from
the disease as did all of the human beings claimed by the cholera
outbreak the same time.....
The cattle plague was interpreted as part of a continuing dialogue
between eh Almighty and His fallen children. As one Herefordshire church
warden remarked.....he wanted to know in this AD 1866, the Almighty dealt
with His people as He did with the Israelites of old.


The belovedQueen Victoria believed that the British were of Israleitish
stock. In the beef vrisis of the 1800, the nation prayed to God for
enlightenment, forgiveness and deliverance. Six months later, when
science still has not found an answer the church went one step further,
and appointed public Days of Humuliation whwre a proper display of
community repentance could be made.

Within weeks of the churches in England sending up their prayers, the
cattle plague also began to abated.


<><><><>
What did we learn from AIDS???? The disease is said to have an incubation
period of up to 30 years!, Yet scientist generally state that it is only
10 years or so. How fast would these pundits change their minds if the
Creutzfiled-Jakob disease is linked to humans???

There are consequences to lots of things that do not show up immediately
but rahter over a much longer period of time/ Thus we could be in for a
BIG surprise when it is actually too late to fix the problem.

If we all prayed to the betterment of the human race and ask for guidance
maybe we would not be in this (and the approaching) mess(es).

Jeliko,

>I do not think it is appropriate to claim that the Hungarian government
>caved in to "Slovaks" and "Romanians". It may have caved in to the
>Slovakian and Romanian governments.

        I usually agree with Jeliko but this is splitting hair. Of course, I
meant the Slovak or Romanian governments.

        Eva Balogh

>At 08:56 AM 9/4/96 +1000, George Antony wrote in connection with the
>cancellation of the HungarHotels deal:

>>On the other hand, it is to let
>>foreign investors know that the government intends to charge
realistic
>>commercial values for assets and investors cannot expect to buy up
the
>>asset base of the country on the cheap.  This is definitely positive
as
>>a message, *provided* it stands on firm feet. For there are plenty of
>>entrepreneurs out there who want to make just a quick buck out of
Eastern
>>European privatization and can be expected to merely do a bit of
asset
>>stripping (e.g., sell the silverware, china, building etc. separately
>>for more than what they paid for a going business, thus making a
profit
>>and killing the business) and get out.
>

There is nothing wrong, of course, with governments -- or any other
business owners -- striving to get the best price for the assetts they
put up for sale.  They also have the right not to put an item up for
sale.

What is incomprehensible in the HungarHotels case is that the
government put the hotel portfolio up for sale, engaged in long
negotiations with potential buyers, came to an agreement, and then
pulled out of the deal.

One could surmise that PM Horn, ignorant of the details of the deal,
overrode the negotiators once he found out the price.  If this is true,
its bad news for it implies that he was not in control of his own
government and he is a poor manager.

PM Horn is far more cunning than that and I don't buy the innocent
bystander story at all.  More likely, IMHO, he knowingly allowed the
negotiations to proceed, misleading the potential buyers in the
process, in order to create a a "situation" in which he could then
appear as the last minute white knight who saves the nation from a
disastrous bad deal, picking up lots of domestic popularity points.

best regards,



Charlie Vamossy

Sam to me:
> Coming from a guy who attacks people based on their Jewish heritage and/or
> American origins, this is rich indeed.

Now, if you do not support your claim by appropriate
quotes from me, you just proved that you are no more
than a plain Internet crook.

You don't even deserve that I educate you free about
the philosophy of one of the giants of our Century,
Martin Heidegger.

As about you, that's all from me.
                                            Szekely

At 08:56 AM 9/4/96 +1000, George Antony wrote in connection with the
cancellation of the HungarHotels deal:

>I do not share your furore over this.  Legally there was nothing wrong with
>the Horn decision: he pulled back at the stage of a letter of intent, not
>at the stage of a valid contract.

        Maybe in the strict sense of the letter of the law there was nothing
"legally" wrong but often it doesn't have to be and yet the general
impression is sleaze and untrustworthiness. That was the case with the
HungarHotels, in my opinion.

>On the other hand, it is to let
>foreign investors know that the government intends to charge realistic
>commercial values for assets and investors cannot expect to buy up the
>asset base of the country on the cheap.  This is definitely positive as
>a message, *provided* it stands on firm feet. For there are plenty of
>entrepreneurs out there who want to make just a quick buck out of Eastern
>European privatization and can be expected to merely do a bit of asset
>stripping (e.g., sell the silverware, china, building etc. separately
>for more than what they paid for a going business, thus making a profit
>and killing the business) and get out.

        I'm afraid there isn't a heck of a lot of goodies left which are
very desirable. Most of the plumbs are gone.

>As for the calculations, I consider the old deal of retaining a 49% share
>unfavourable in itself, regardless of price, as it would have left the
>Hungarian government with substantial ongoing financial commitments in
>scrubbing up the tattered old hotels AND a minority voting position on
>the board.  I did not see the Vilaggazdasag calculation: has this issue
>been factored into their calculation ?

        I really should check the Internet edition of Vilaggazdasag because
I read only the article's synopsis in BLA which, of course, was very
abbreviated.

>Finally, if he can pull off a better deal, Horn will be able to claim
>for domestic consumption to have stood up to marauding foreign capitalist,
>thus denting the arguments of his left- and right-wing opponents about
>his selling the country out and letting her to be walked over by all and
>sundry.  Considering that economic nationalism is one of the main hobby
>horses of the collective paranoid anticapitalist opposition, this would
>be a minor political coup for him.

        Obviously George thinks more highly of Horn as a politician than I
am. I just started reading Horn's autobiography published in 1991. Once
finished with it I will be glad to share my impressions of the book with the
list. But even without ever reading his autobiography I think that as a
prime minister he is pretty much of a failure.

>For starters,
>if there had been professional politicians in the Antall government, Horn
>would not be in power now.  Just think about it.

        I can't agree here either. (1) The Antall government wasn't defeated
because it wasn't comprised of professional politicians but because the
economic situation of the country deteriorated (mind you, inevitably) during
its time in office. (With this I am not saying that they acted in a fashion
which was politically savy.) (2) There were only one kind of "professional
politicians" in Hungary--as well as elsewhere in Eastern Europe--the
communists. Surely, if the same "professional politicians" continued after
1990 one didn't even need free elections. Thus we could have had Horn not in
1994 but in 1990.

        The problem with Eastern Europe's "professional politicians" is that
a successful politician in a one-party system and a command economy was a
very different animal from a successful politician in a democracy under
market forces. And this is where these guys fail, I think.

        Eva Balogh

Peter A. Soltesz believes that madcow disease and AIDS can be cured by
prayer.  I think I'll pray to get Peter Soltesz to stop posting such nonsense.

Joe Szalai

"There is no greater distance than that between a man in prayer and God."
               Ivan Illich

>Sam to me:
>> Coming from a guy who attacks people based on their Jewish heritage and/or
>> American origins, this is rich indeed.
>
>Now, if you do not support your claim by appropriate
>quotes from me, you just proved that you are no more
>than a plain Internet crook.
>
>You don't even deserve that I educate you free about
>the philosophy of one of the giants of our Century,
>Martin Heidegger.
>
>As about you, that's all from me.
>                                            Szekely
Tz tz tz:are you loosing your religious control?How come?You should educate
evrybody regardless of there beives,since yours is superior to all of them.
Mad cow ,aids all under one hat?How about the potato famine?Who did pray for
that?How about tifus,colera,etc.
I am sory but you can not all the awbsers in religion.Not even with a crying
painting of Virgin Mary.
I endorse your beiefs,if this is yours well go ahead,and I hope you live by it.
Mind you I doubt it,since you do not consider your fellow human beings,as
equals to You.
Andy.>

At 11:27 AM 9/4/96 -0700, Eva Balogh, responding to George Antony re:
Hungarhotels, wrote:

>        The problem with Eastern Europe's "professional politicians" is that
>a successful politician in a one-party system and a command economy was a
>very different animal from a successful politician in a democracy under
>market forces. And this is where these guys fail, I think.

"Professional politicians" and democracy are incompatible.  It is an
oxymoronic concept.

Joe Szalai

a politician is an arse upon
which everyone has sat except a man.
      e. e. cummings

WITH 5 DOLLARS AND A FEW STAMPS YOU COULD BE MAKING MONEY!
   Sounds impossible but it's true!!! Many people have made up to
   40,000 DOLLARS!!!
   Besides you don't have to lose anything but 5 green ones!
   DON'T MISS THE OPORTUNITY OF YOUR LIFE!
   Read the instructions below and DO IT!


THE OFFICIAL INSTRUCTIONS:

1. Take 5 sheets of paper and write the following: "Please add my
   name to your list." This makes a service out of this money making
   and thus making it completely legal. You are not just randomly
   sending a dollar to someone you are paying a dollar for a
   legitiment service. Make sure that you include your name and
   address. I assure you that, again,this is completely legal! For a
   little twist, you can also write in what slot thier name was in:
   "You were in slot number three." Just to add a little fun! This
   is all about having fun and making money at the same time! Here
   is an example letter:

   Dear (name here), Please add my name to your list. Thank you for
   this service! -Your name here.

   Address them to the names in the following list:

THE NAMES*THE NAMES*THE NAMES*THE NAMES*THE NAMES*THE NAMES*THE NAMES*


1. Joe Closs
   7 Atlas Court
   Richmond Hill, Ontario
   Canada  L4S 1G1

2. Reginald Haines
   3703 Madison Ave. #3
   San Diego, CA 92116
   U.S.A.

3. Jeszs Pinazo Ruiz
   Avda. Andalucia, 96
   29751-Caleta de Vilez
   Malaga (SPAIN)

4. Pamela D. Hill
   11912 PORTERS MILL TURN
   MIDLOTHIAN, VA. 23113-1290
   U.S.A.

5. Xenophon Tsakanikas
   5, Osias Xenis Str.
   54250, Thessaloniki
   GREECE

**********************************************************************


2. Now fold each piece of paper around each dollar bill,
   (no checks or money orders) and put each one into thier
   respective envelopes and send them on thier way! It is important
   that the paper is folded around the dollar to ensure that it
   arrives at it's destination. THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT STEP!!!!!

3. Now listen carefully, here's where you get TONS OF MONEY
   COMING TO YOUR MAILBOX. Look at the list of five people listed
   above; remove the first name from position one and move each person
   one slot up on the list. Position 2 moves to Position 1, Position 3
   moves to Position 2, Position 4 moves to Position 3, and Position 5
   moves to Position 4. Now put your name, address, zip code, and
   _COUNTRY_ in position 5 at the bottom of the list.

4. Now upload this updated list to as many newsgroups and
   BBSes as you can. Give the files a catchy subject or description
   so it gets noticed! Such as "Need fast cash?" or "Need cash to
   pay your debts?", ect. And the more uploads and postings, the
   more money you will make, and of course the more money you make
   the more money the other people on the list will make to because
   we each get a dollar.

   LET'S ALL TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER BY BEING HONEST AND BY PUTTING FORTH
   120 PERCENT INTO THIS PROFITABLE AND AMAZING SYSTEM!!!

You'll reap the benifits believe me!!!!!! Set a goal for the number
of total uploads you'll post such as 200-250 posting or more! Always
have a  goal in mind.

If you can UUE encode the file while uploading then do it! It will
make it easier for the people to recieve it and have it downloaded to
their hard drive. That way they get a copy of the article right on
thier computer without the hassles of view and then saving the
article from the File Menu.

5. If you need help uploading, simplely ask the sysop of your
   BBS or internet service provider or just about anyone you can
   contact PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET ARE GLAD TO HELP
   OTHERS. I would try to explain it myself but there are too many
   different internet software packages with slightly different, yet
   relatively simple ways of posting articles and files on the net.You
   could also look in the program's help file under 'posting' for
   assistance. Put something like this in the main body of the article
   or message:"Download this to learn how to get cash arriving
   in your mailbox with no paybacks!" or whatever. Just make sure it
   represents its ture feasibility, NOT something like: " 2 million
   dollars in your mailbox in two days" You wont get a single
   response, I guarantee you.

6. Now heres my favorite part! ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SIT
   BACK AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE KNOWING THAT CASH IS
   ON ITS WAY!!!!! Expect to see a little money start to trickle in
   around 2 weeks, but in 3 TO 4 WEEKS MONEY WILL START
   TO CRAM YOUR MAILBOX THERE WILL BE SO MUCH
   MONEY THAT YOU WILL SCREAM!!! But don't scream to
   loud, the nieghbors might complain, but you know that you
   are set for life.

7. So go PAY OFF YOUR BILLS AND DEBTS and get that
   special someone the gift that they have had their eyes on.
   Throw a PARTY, do all the things you wanted to do before
   but couldn't afford. Enjoy life it's really great out there!!!

8. Now when you get low on this money supply, simply
   reactivate this file again; reposting it in all the places you
   can. Dont ever lose this file, always keep a copy at your
   reach for when you ever need cassh .
   THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE TOOL THAT YOU CAN ALWAYS REUSE TIME AND TIME
   AGAIN WHEN CASH IS NEEDED!!!

 Mon Sep  2 09:12:20 EDT 1996 HUNGARY #778:

>>At 10:57 PM 8/31/96 -0400, Aniko wrote in connection with Arpi Rambo's
posting:
>>
>>When I see this type of shit on the net, the only thing that comes to mind
>>is that some degree of maturity is obviously lacking.
>
>        Rambo is specializing in shit.
>
            <snip>
>
>        Eva Balogh

Ladies (if I may use the term loosely), please watch what comes out of your
mouths ;-)

Ferenc

 Mon Sep  2 02:22:02 EDT 1996 HUNGARY #778:

>In article >, Ferenc Novak
> writes:
>
>>Now, why does this "career advice" look so familiar to me?  Is it only my
>>imagination, or have the letters NPA suddenly, mysteriously flash in my
>mind?
>>Maybe Sam can explain...
>
>Did NPA write the same thing to him? Perhaps, then, Zoltan had better pay
>attention. If his comments about Americans, homosexuals and Jews weren't
>controversial and repugnant to most of his co-workers, he wouldn't have
>any problem sharing those views with the people he works with, would he?
>You, of course, didn't think about that before posting the above, did you?
>You've helped prove my point about Zoltan and I thank you. Too bad AOL
>doesn't allow screen names longer than eight characters. Yours would more
>aptly be "NAbility2Nfer." Thanks for taking me out of your kill file. It's
>always a pleasure to assist you in making a public fool out of yourself.
>Not difficult, mind you, but pleasant.
>Sam Stowe

If anyone can understand what stowewrote above, please explain to me.
His foggy prose, coupled with a dash impertinence cannot hide the fact that
he is, again, quoting out of context.  His original message, to which I was
responding, was:

<To Szekely Zoli>

>>5. It is just a humble trial to interpret a text. Maybe I am not
>>   right. Anybody has a chance to come up with his/her own
>>   interpretation. But being unfair should not be a guarantee for
>>   acceptance.
>>                                                         Sz. Zoli
>>
>
>Let me be the first to assure you -- you aren't right. You're not even
>close. If I might offer some career advice to you, I strongly urge you not
>to air these views in public, especially around the office. It's one thing
>to pump this out over an Internet full of strangers. You do it in front of
>the people you work with and it will bring you major trouble in the most
>immediate way.
>Sam Stowe

Now those who haven't seen the entire exchange can see what I objected to.
 His response is very much in character; obfuscation and insults.

Ferenc

Eva Balogh said:
 but often it doesn't have to be and yet the general
impression is sleaze and untrustworthiness.
...

I agree wholehartedly. In fact lots of investors also agree. See how much
Hungary has lost in recent investments after this fiasco!
It is now Czech Republic that is Number one in investments!!!

I also agree that most of the good cherries are already picked (plums?)
they have managed to steal the country blind...and who pays???
The people who got suckerred in again!

Charlie Vamossy said:
...What is incomprehensible in the HungarHotels case is that the
government put the hotel portfolio up for sale, engaged in long
negotiations with potential buyers, came to an agreement, and then
pulled out of the deal......

I agree with this. I also partially agree that it may have been
a political move. But moreover, it may have been that someone did not
get sufficient payoff to make the deal worth while, else they would have
sold it (regardless of the price). More likely, some other party offered
to pay more under the table!

A good business man should know how much the Hotel is worth and not find out
at the last minute! This shows me that the govt agencies APV Rt and the Horn
administration is sleeping on the job!
Peter Soltesz

I guess Joe has NEVER read the history books in England or anywhere else.
Perhaps we should pray for you so that your beliefs grow beyond that
little mind of yours!  The FACT is that the English did pray after all
else failed -- in public no less !!! -- and things did get better.

Perhaps Joe can tell us why it makes sense to him to have a cow [designed
for eating only grass] be fed meat products, and not expect that it will
become infected???  Perhaps if we ask for guidance we may be able to open
our eyes and figure out what we are doing wrong, else we cannot solve our
own problems (we have been doing apiss poor job lately!)
Peter Soltesz

On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:

> Peter A. Soltesz believes that madcow disease and AIDS can be cured by
> prayer.  I think I'll pray to get Peter Soltesz to stop posting such nonsense
.
>
> Joe Szalai
>
> "There is no greater distance than that between a man in prayer and God."
>                Ivan Illich
>

In article >,  says...
> Some information that might be of interest to whom it may concern:
>
>
> The new Chair of the Board of Governors at the University of Carleton
> is Dr. Ivan Fellegi.
>
> For more information, see the page at URL
>
> http://www.carleton.ca/cu/twac/fe1/s9.html
> Interview: Meet Dr. Ivan Fellegi, Chair of the Board
>
>
>
>
> For the administrative organisation at the Carleton University
> (may be out of date), see:
>
> gopher://ernest.carleton.ca:406/11/root-all/general/adoffices
>
>
>
>
>
> Also on the Carleton University gopher:
>
> Officers of Instruction, as of July 1, l996
>
> Out of 19 Professors and Associate Professors at the School of
> Journalism and Communication, Carleton University, there is only one
> with a BA degree (same level as Ms. Szurek's) and it is - Mr. George
> Frajkor.  The rest have of course Masters and Doctorates.
>
> Mr. Frajkor is signing his message with a baroque signature that states
> he is at School af Journalism, that lead several contributors to express
> their astonishment about his journalist qualities. In fact, this .sig
> information is not correct. The correct name of the organisational unit
> is "School of Journalism and Communication".
>
> Moreover, Mr. Frajkor is not a journalist, but according to the gopher
> information, he is specialised in "Animation and electronic techniques
> in television".
>
> Perhaps the explanation why he is displaying such a level of ignorance
> of the basic rules of scholar work (yes, FACTS !) and astonishing lack
> of just plain scientific ethics.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mr. Frajkor is using the computer equipment of the University.
>
> Mr. Frajkor has been caught deliberately spreading false informations
> about listmembers (see a few recent articles in Slovak-L). Mr. Frajkor
> is running a fascist mailing list. Mr. Frajkor is tolerating, approving
> or even actively participating in deeds like defamation, expressions of
> racial and national hate, calls for intolerance. For more details, look
> in Slovak-L.
>
>
>
> Regarding the the policies of computer use at Carleton, Cf.  URL
> gopher://ernest.carleton.ca:406/00/root-all/uni-policies/
> Policies_regarding_Computers/onet
>
> > Uses that fall under one of the following descriptions are, in
> > general, not acceptable.
> >
> > ( ... )
> >
> > 3.  Uses that are considered by the ONet Management Committee to be
> > malicious or unethical.
> >
> > 4.  Uses that violate federal or provincial laws.
>
>
>
> Just thought this information might be of interest to the Internet
> community.
>
> Roman Kanala


Mr. Kanala

are you sure you've never been in Communist party? Maybe Stalin's helper? I
can not think any other more appropriate place for you. They (communists)
used same style of arguments in their disputes with public, they
blacklisted every opponent, they denied freedom of association same way as
you do in your posting on August 30:


RK:rather a compliment). Frajkor, Pacek, Szurek, Gazdik, Ziska, Kmet...
RK: ... who are using inuendo and undue association of themselfs with the
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
RK:whole nation.

You must know that freedom of association and freedom of speech without any
fear of harassment are basic human rights. So what are you talking about?

Who are You Mr. Kanala?


Peter Kmet

Peter Soltesz has opined:

> Eva Balogh said:
>>  but often it doesn't have to be and yet the general
>> impression is sleaze and untrustworthiness.
> ...

> I agree wholehartedly.

Eva, surely, that should be a worry, shouldn't it ;-)

George Antony

Could you guys please cease using the HUNGARY list for this tussle.

Thanks,
George Antony

Eva S. Balogh wrote:
. >.... For example, if I
> recall, Romania originally refused to include the controversial reference to
> any kind of autonomy. Be that cultural or otherwise. Yet, eventually this
> paragraph was included.


Was included but its meaning was redefined. So as far as the
Romanian and the Hungarian states are concerned the Article 1201
does not speac about Collective Autonomy. I would call that exclusion... or...
maybe
inclusion by exlusion of content.

Like we say  -Cu aste basta-.

>From here the logical conclusion there will be no political
affiliation accepted based on ethnicity. No more Hungarians only...please.
If Hungarians are to coexist in Romania they shall try to make an
effort of blending in and educate the next generation  the
Romanian spirit of love and respect to 2000 years of latinity.
They should be asamed of degrading and subjygating a pace living neigbour.
The Hungarian church shall get out of politics.


A. Albu

At 06:53 PM 9/4/96 -0500, A. Albu wrote:

>Like we say  -Cu aste basta-.

And he proved that he is also an illiterate, not only in English but in
Romanian too.

Gabor D. Farkas

George Antony wrote:
> Could you guys please cease using the HUNGARY list for this tussle.

I second that.
I am almost at the point treating them the same way I treat other people
( For only $5 you can get rich ) who post Non-Hungarian (and this thread
is VERY Non-Hungarian) items.....
......Lotsa copies of their mail back to them ;-)


 GarryC.

Maybe we should start a mail feed called "hungary.personal.wars" and keep the
current group for REAL Hungarian concerns. :-)

############################################################################
#  It is better to meet a mother bear   # Internet:        #
#  robbed  of  her cubs, than to meet   # Garry Collins, Electronics Dev't,#
#  some  fool  busy  with  a   stupid   # PEC (New Zealand) Ltd     Marton #
#  project. Proverbs 17:12(Good news)   # New Zealand   Tel +64 6 327 8189 #
############################################################################

Art 1201 interpretation by G. Dumitrescu >:

>
> All I know is that in Moldova, Ardeal, and Wallachia (which make up Romania),
> the majority of people were Romanian speaking shepherds and farmers who spoke
> Romanian for well over a thousand years before Arpad, Peter the Great, Taras
> Bulba, Yul Brinner and all the free-wheeling Turko-Asiatic peoples without a
> real country ever reached the river Volga, forget about Hollywood or
Paramount
> Pictures.
>
> Thank-you very little,
>
> --
> G. Dumitrescu




A.Albu
Cu asta basta

You wrote:
>
>Peter Soltesz has opined:
>
>> Eva Balogh said:
>>>  but often it doesn't have to be and yet the general
>>> impression is sleaze and untrustworthiness.
>> ...
>
>> I agree wholehartedly.
>
>Eva, surely, that should be a worry, shouldn't it ;-)
>
>George Antony
>

I trust that this cheap shot is an exception to Mr Anthony's otherwise
usually well reasoned postings on a variety of subjects.  I enjoy
reading and learn from the usually informed, interesting and diverse
postings on this group. This was not one of them.

Regards,


Charlie Vamossy

George Anthony wrote:
>
>Eva Balogh wrote:
>
>> At 08:56 AM 9/4/96 +1000, George Antony wrote in connection with the
>> cancellation of the HungarHotels deal:
>> >I do not share your furore over this.  Legally there was nothing
wrong with
>> >the Horn decision: he pulled back at the stage of a letter of
intent, not
>> >at the stage of a valid contract.
>>
>>         Maybe in the strict sense of the letter of the law there was
nothing
>> "legally" wrong but often it doesn't have to be and yet the general
>> impression is sleaze and untrustworthiness. That was the case with
the
>> HungarHotels, in my opinion.
>
>The commercial world is not the meeting place of the Knights of the
Holy
>Grail and much worse practices are commonplace.  The strict letter of
the
>law is the best guiding light.  Businesses tend to sue for much less
than
>clear breaches of contract, especially in the US. The fact that the US
>company did not sue at all is the best proof that by general business
>standards there was nothing exceptional about the cancellation.
Whinges
>for public-relations purposes can be taken with more than a pinch of
salt.
>
>

There is a wide difference between "general business standards" and
breach of contracts suits.  Having spent months negotiating with the
Hungarian Government, expending considerable time and money, I am sure
the US buyer did not have a high opinion of its contracting counterpart
when the head of the Government pulled out of the deal.  The buyer
probably had reasonable expectations that the negotiators representing
the Government had the approval of its head.  When PM Horn announced
busting the deal, the US buyer was probably heard muttering a few
choice words under his breath about Hungarian general business
standards and the people who practise them...

As far as breach of contract is concerned, the buyers may have toyed
with the idea but ended up rejecting it.  Even if an agreement that had
the standing of a contract could be produced (which is doubtful) where
would s/he file her complaint?  In a Hungarian Court?  This is the same
group of legal whizzes who ruled that property taken away by the
communists based on laws that have since been declared illegal stays
with the illegal owners as long as the original legal owners were given
partial compensation, in other words legalizing the theft of property.
Surely our US buyer could not hope for fair treatment in such a court.

So the US buyer walked away a great deal wiser about doing business in
Hungary.  About the only thing s/he did was to make sure that the New
York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times and the
Economist had the whole story, before buying a plane ticket to Prague
to check out what might be for sale there.

And PM Horn sat back, content with his sudden rise in domestic
popularity as a result of his well planned action...

Regards

Charlie Vamossy














Regards


Charlie Vamossy

>Mr. Kanala

>are you sure you've never been in Communist party?

You are pathetic loser! Last week you called me a fascist (or was it
fascizoid?) (and I am not) and now you call Kanala a communist (and he is
not)? You are all over the place, do ya? :-)

> Maybe Stalin's helper? I
>can not think any other more appropriate place for you. They (communists)
>used same style of arguments in their disputes with public, they
>blacklisted every opponent, they denied freedom of association same way as
>you do in your posting on August 30:


>RK:rather a compliment). Frajkor, Pacek, Szurek, Gazdik, Ziska, Kmet...
>RK: ... who are using inuendo and undue association of themselfs with the
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>RK:whole nation.

>You must know that freedom of association and freedom of speech without any
>fear of harassment are basic human rights. So what are you talking about?

>Who are You Mr. Kanala?

In case you did not get it, Mr. Kanala does not like Slovak fascists - it is
your problem that you feel personally offended.

>Peter Kmet

Rosta