Hugh Agnew wrote:
>
> Dear fellow-listmembers,
>
> Steven Scheer's musings on the permutations of food and food names have
> encouraged me to raise a question here that I discussed once with a friend
> in private.  Perhaps I even dared to ask in this forum once before, but I
> don't recall, and can't remember receiving enlightenment if I did.  So:
>
> One of my favorite Czech dishes is what we call "segedinsky gulas" (thus,
> obviously, identified in the Czech mind--if anyone still knows geography--
> with Szeged).  It's made with pork, not beef, has sour cabbage in it, and
> has a sour-cream paprika sauce.  Does this resemble any "real" Hungarian
> dish in any way, and if so, is there any demonstrable connection to Szeged?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Hugh Agnew
> 

I have just found the 'Szededi Gulya's' in my 'Szaka'csko:nyv' from
Minerva Kiado, Budapest 1963, page 116: it is the same as the 'bogra'cs
gulya's' except one adds diced up vegetable to it. Beleive it or not, I
just made a big pot of it ednesday, and guess what we are having for
dinner tonight - you are right - left over szgedi gulyas, or as my twin
brother calls it: glorified vegetable soup.! Jo' e'tva'gyat!
Jo'zsi

P.s.: those of you who can not beleive that 'fasirozott' is called
'vagdalt hu's' - beleive it! It took me a long time to find a recepie for
it. Now I just throw it together - but always using at least two diffrent
type of meat : beef and pork or ground turkey.

More terrible still are the relatives/friends left behind.  Waiting at the
airport, sharing the excitement of someone they love going off to Europe,
or returning home.  Yes, it's horrible.  I was depressed all evening and,
like Andy K., I didn't know anyone at all on the flight.

Burian

A few observations concerning the opening ceremonies of the Olympics in
Atlanta:

1. The Guatemalan team's flag-bearer was a young man named Attila Solti.
Is this or is this not a perfectly good Hungarian monicker?

2. After staying up until nearly 11 p.m. (way past my bedtime) to see the
Hungarian team march into the stadium, NBC cut away after Haiti so Hannah
Storm could interview NBA has-been Charles Barkeley, aka the Round Mound
of Rebound. When they go back to the stadium, a herring-fed horde of
Icelanders is processing down the ramp. No Magyars anywhere to be seen.
Thanks, NBC! Jerks. I bet the place is run by Slovak nationalists. And
let's hope when Albert Belle finally has the inescapable psychotic episode
that will end his career, Hannah's sitting in the dug-out next to him.

3. Szalai content: According to NBC, the members of the Canadian swimming
team had to sign contracts agreeing to completely forgo all, uh, carnal
pleasures during the Olympics. Save it for the pool, boys and girls.
Boston Red Sox fans like myself, of course, will recognize this
ill-founded emphasis on pre-performance abstinence from the illustrious
career of Wade Boggs. Whether the Canadian swimmers will be forced to
choke down large amounts of chicken before they race remains to be seen.

4. Budapest in 2004, 2008 or 2012? When's the earliest Hungary could host
the Summer Olympics? Does it dare?
Sam Stowe

"When you find the one you might become,
Remember part of me is you..."
 -- "Simple Song", Lyle Lovett

In article >, Slammin' Joe
Szalai, Celibate Canadian Swimming Aficionado
> back strokes:

> And,
>invariably, I'd be in favour of good social programmes and services and
>she'd be opposed.  Her opposition comes from her belief that the nation,
>country, taxpayers, or what-have-you, can't afford the programmes.  She
>believes that these social programmes, if not severely reduced, will
>devastate the national economy and there will be even fewer programmes to
go
>around.  On a superficial level her arguments are not bad.  But lets go
>beyond the superficial.

<Snip lots of superficial stuff>

You need me to draw you a map?

What I've seen her advocate so far is restraint in social spending. She
has also groped toward a recommendation of means-testing social benefits,
although she hasn't come out and said it in that many words. There's a
vast quantitative difference (and qualitative, now that I think about it)
between completely dismantling social programs ad hoc and making the
damned things run efficiently and serve the people who really need them.
The former is boilerplate Republican Party dogma; the latter is fairly
basic common sense.

Hungary and the U.S. aren't too far apart in the structural problems
wasteful social and corporate welfare spending create for both nations'
economies. And voters in both countries are remarkably consistent in
resisting reforms that would deal with those structural problems. Reform
is inevitable, however, in both societies and, perhaps also inevitably, is
likely to be crisis-driven by the time the respective political systems
actually come to grips with implementing the specifics of reform. I
suspect we will eventually see a rejection of the radical right-wing
belief (and it is little more than that, empirically speaking) that the
free market can solve all ills and fairly adjudicate all social needs. I
also, however, think we'll see a rejection of the kind of mindless,
continuous extension of benefits to any and everyone which seemed to be a
mania in Canada and much of western Europe until recently. That means you
won't be a happy camper -- which, ironically, may temperamentally suit you
just fine. But it may also mean that the U.S. and Hungary will be able to
take care of those members of their societies who most need help and not
hurt them and the broader society over the long term by doing so.

Hungary has much greater hurdles to overcome to achieve this kind of
smooth transition. It does not have the available social capital which the
U.S. can tap to effect major changes in public policy. One thing I have
learned as a reader and participant of this list is that political
discourse in Hungarian culture seems to be artificially stiff and severely
channelled into some fairly creaky political ideologies -- anti-semitic
Greater Hungarian nationalism, boilerplate Kadarism and a fluffy, vague
version of social democracy. The only thing binding it all together is
that it is intensely nationalist in character and singularly unwilling to
honestly and comprehensively address Hungary's current needs. I would
submit that in its current straits, Hungary can ill-afford to indulge in
the kind of irredentist fantasies and inward-turning insistence on its own
specialness which have haunted its politics throughout this century and
the last.
Sam Stowe

"When you find the one you might become,
Remember part of me is you..."
 -- "Simple Song", Lyle Lovett

The tragic crash of TWA Flight 800 claimed the life of a young american
born hungarian - Dan Gabor from the San Francisco Bay area. There is a
long write up about him in today's edition of the SF Chronicle.

Jo'zsi Hill
 e-mail: 

On 7/18/96 Andy Kozma wrote:

>I realise that this thread is mostly for academic highly educated people,so
>I'll be prepared to hear from all sides.I have to tell you,that at my age my
>skin is quite thick and probaly I won't blush either.
>I can not undestand how so higly educated people can be so vicious toward
>each other,since someone has different outlook on life or the subject on
>hand.Tham comes quotes from country or rock singers,to strenghten the point.

Hi Andy,

First, I think this is a list for the general public, though the internet
public, will tend to be a bit more educated.  I don't know what the actual
stats are, but I doubt if over 25% of households have Internet access even
in North America.  As for Hungarians from Hungary, I wouldn't even guess
(<5%?).  There are academic lists, I subscribe to some, e.g. Ethnohistory,
or  PSN (Progressive Sociologists Net), or even Anthro-l, but this is far
from one -- Just folks interested in Hungary.

Second, I think you overestimate the value of an education and needlessly
berate yourself.  Sometimes education can be damaging, it is certainly not
always tailored to the student's abilities. Whatever your educational level
is, it was adequate for you to have lived your life to this point and even
to get you on this forum, so you have as much right to speak your mind as
anyone.  You should speak up more often.  We could use some good old
fashioned common sense -- and I mean 'we', me too.

Later on you ask:

>Is this a Hungarian sickness?
>I lived in Canada now 40 years.It tooke us less to be considered #1 in the
>world
>to live.I am proud of it,and seriously I have not seen and felt that much
>backstabbing as here.
>Maybe I should do as Mr.Benke did,threaten to dissacoate myself,and than
>come back.No I will probaly stay,so I can read all the goodies wich will
>appear.
>Thanks' for listening:Andy Kozma (my real name)


I only came back to post the notice about the August 20 celebration of the
settlement and to urge everyone to light a candle.  I did this because I
was asked to by the   people in The Human Rights for Minorities in Central
Europe Society, Vancouver, B.C.  I am staying 'til the 20th or maybe the
end of August and then I am unsuscribing.  I will most likely loose my
Internet access around then in any case.

As for Hungarians being a little adamant in the way they argue, well you
have to be a mean son o' a --- if you're going to make your home in the
middle of a highway.  ;-)

Seriously though, it appears that most Hungarians believe that if you win
an argument and prove that you are right, you justify the use of any amount
of force to get those who disagree with you to do as you say, maybe even
stab them any way you want.   I tried and failed to point out that this
cultural flaw will have to be eliminated if we are to survive into the
future, but I see little hope.

Thanks for your wise contribution and all the best,

Tibor Benke (my real name too and I am sorry too)

At 9:42 a.m. George Anthony wrote:

>Reading the article by the American Hungarian emigre begrudging the sell-
>out of "our" property in Hungary to foreigners, and talking about "us the
>10 million" suggests deep confusion about her identity.  As for the apparent
>economics professor Gidai, her gravitas is well shown by her mixing standard
>IMF and World-Bank-bashing with laments about lost opportunities for restoring
>Hungary's historical borders when Hungary joins the European Union.  Where I
>attended economics courses in Australia, such an essay would not have been
>accepted from a green first-year student.
>
>Remaining at a very emotional level, both articles clearly aim at presenting
>as negative a picture of the Hungarian present as possible, without any
>serious analysis of the causes and putting forward no alternative solutions
>whatsoever.  In all, they are excellent examples of the kind of political
>'thinking' where right-wing demagoguery blends becomes indistinguishable
>from that of the left.
>

I've read references to some of the phenomena mentioned in that sorry
article even in such non right wing electronic publications as BLA.  For
example, the 'problem' of homeless lice infested people sheltering in
parked first class compartments of trains and 'ruining' them for the hard
done by business passengers.   All I read gives me the distinct impression
that with further IMF/World Bank advice, the brilliant efforts of the
enterpreneurial class, and the generous help of the developed countries,
regardless of which political parties run the country in a few years  the
standard of living in Hungary will match ,  Venezuela's, Turkey's or with
real success, El Salvador's with a distribution profile to match.  Perhaps
you have some knowledge that would give me reason to be more optimistic,
care to share it with the list?

Tibor Benke

Eva Balogh writes:


>At 08:41 AM 7/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Tibor Benke was looking for a spice dictionary. I think he ment the
>>following posting in TIPP #1621 from: 
>>on Jan 3, 1995.
>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Actually, it was shortly after this posting  (within a week or two along
the same thread.  It was several pages for each language and I saved it
too, but I misfiled the floppy.  Anyway, I am almost more interested about
how effortless it is to find an arbitrary piece of information on the webb.


>
>
>        Let me share with you a very funny story. The first Christmas in
>Canada was approaching in 1957 and, as I mentioned, I lived with a very nice
>Hungarian-German-Transylvanian Saxon family. Christmas Eve afternoon I
>received a telephone call from my landlady: "Eva, I forgot to buy some
>"ma'k," for the Christmas "bejgli," would you stop at the European
>Delicatessen and buy some!" "Sure," I said, "and, by the way, what is the
>English equivalent of "ma'k"? "Poppy seeds." I repeated several times:
>"poppy seeds, poppy seeds," and at five o'clock I was heading to the
>European Delicatessen, then the only shop in town, catering to European
>taste and owned by a Polish couple. Long, long line of people, of course,
>before Christmas, but at last it was my turn: "May I have . . . may I have .
>. ." "What?" said the woman behind the counter. "Well, it is small and
>black," "Pepper?" "No, not pepper." In short, I completely lost the word!
>The lady behind the counter waited quite patiently but eventually she said:
>"Say it in your own language!" "Oh, it won't help you, it won't help you at
>all." She: "Say it in your own language." At last I whispered" "ma'k." She
>turned on her heels, picked up a package of poppy seeds and handed it to me.
>It turned out that "ma'k," is "mak" in Polish, too!
>

A nice piece of luck.  There is a nice polish deli near the Credit Union
where I do my banking and it has real szegedi paprika and Vegeta  (a
vegetable stock) and pretty good "hungarian" salami.  But they have
something called Kolbasza which only vaugely resembles kolba'sz.  It is
interesting how food names and recepies vari through geography and
historical time.

BTW, does anyone know how paprika  arrived in Hungary?  I know the capsicum
plant was domestikated in Chile and brought back to Europe by the Spanish,
but there doesn't seem to be a straight line of paprika trail leading from
there to Hungary.  Anyone know the whole story?

Tibor Benke

Dear fellow-listmembers,

Tibor Benke asks about how paprika arrived in Hungary.  While I can't
give specialist knowledge here, let me add to the stew of partially-
remembered snippets and vague impressions :-)):

Didn't someone on this list within living memory toss off the comment
that paprika was actually pushed by the authorities as a substitute for
black pepper or some other previously-preferred spice during a crisis
in supply, and that fairly recently within historical time?  (Like, early
eighteenth century?).  Does George Lang have anything on this in his
wonderful cookbook?

Sincerely,

Hugh Agnew

No Hungarian connection but very sad, that one of the most popular teachers
of our high school, Ms. Lois Van Epps, English teacher and  the yearbook
advisor has perished in the crash. It is devastating.

Gabor D. Farkas

At 11:39 AM 7/18/96 -0400, Zoltan Szekely > wrote:
>
> There are a lot of antisemitic
>people, who are not nazis. The two notions are not in coincidence.
>Louis Farrakhan is said to be antisemitic. But nazi? A black guy?

Being a nazi is an equal opportunity position. As far as I am concerned,
based on what Farrakhan preaches about Jews, and whites in general, he
qualifies.

Gabor D. Farkas

Traditionally, Sunday dinner was the most important meal of the week at our
house.  It was served at noontime and we almost always had guests, or,
conversely, we were guests at someone's home.  I loved Sunday dinners
because  the food was good and it was predictable.  We always had chicken
noodle soup followed by either fried chicken or breaded veal/pork cutlets
with rice or mashed potatoes and a side dish of cucumber salad.  The meal
was finished with some homemade pastry, cookies, or cake.

Obviously there were/are many variations to the Sunday dinner but the above
meal stands out in my mind as being fairly typical.  Was it?  Is it?

I'd be interested in knowing what you would consider a typical Hungarian
Sunday dinner.  Maybe we can agree on a typical Sunday menu and then make
the recipes available to the non-Hungarian readers of this list.

Anyone up to getting hungry again by talking/writing/thinking about
Hungarian food?

Joe Szalai

I was watching the opening ceremonies of the Olympics
eagerly awaiting the parade of nations and even more
eagerly looking forward to the march of the Hungarian
team around the stadium . . . But just as it became
Hungary's turn, NBC cut to an interview with a member
of the Dream Team . . . When coverage of the parade
of nations resumed, Iceland was marching . . . the
Hungarian athletes have simply been cut out of the
program, as it were . . . By not being shown, they were,
for all intents and purposes omitted. I felt both
outraged and heart-sick at this. Even if NBC were to
apologize (which they won't, of course,) the "harm" can
never be undone. Even just omitting one nation from
the coverage makes a mockery of their otherwise
"politically correct" posturing about international
brother/sisterhood and good will . . . Not to speak of
the utter callousness of commercial interruptions.
During World Cup Soccer American television was
"forced" to show matches without commercial interruption.
The least NBC could have done was show the parade of
nations without any sort of interruption whatsoever.
In this case, incomplete coverage is simply an insult
not just to those whose teams have been omitted, but
to the very spirit of the games themselves . . .

Steven C. Scheer

This guy writes (in response to Eva Balogh):

">Especially since I didn't even know that the Department of Energy had
>anything to do with the Argonne National Laboratory, and it was only a
>week before your quitting your job that I learned through this list that
>your employer is the Argonne National Laboratory. Go ahead! Give the
>necessary proof!

Baloney! Elek and Farkas long before published where I worked."

I can speak for myself only but I did not know either that Argonne Labs
belonged to the DOE. I also did not publish that. What I did is the following:
during the debate I had with Nemenyi about the use of gov. e-mail accounts
for private purpose I went to a search engine and searched for anl.gov (I
had no clue what it was). Then I found the home page of the Argonne Labs. It
had a pointer to people working there so I clicked on it and I also found
Nemenyi. His name, room number, phone number and fax number were listed. At
that time I did mention what I did (without listing any of this data) in one
of the postings during that debate.

Apparently Mr. Nemenyi thinks that everybody reads every line of every
Forum, especially if it is about him. Well, there are more important things
to do in life and most of us do not work at places where we can do that
during working hours.

Nemenyi's references are at least not very reliable. He frequently quotes
out of context and from dubious sources. For example last time in the Forum
he quoted an article form the 1982 edition of the Nepszabadsag (at that time
the official daily of the Communist Part) to prove that the CIA did bad
things. He also frequently quotes from the Tora and Talmud to prove that
Jews are the origin of everything bad.

Therefore I stopped taking him seriously.

Gabor D. Farkas

At 11:47 AM 7/20/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>Traditionally, Sunday dinner was the most important meal of the week at our
>house.  It was served at noontime and we almost always had guests, or,
>conversely, we were guests at someone's home.  I loved Sunday dinners
>because  the food was good and it was predictable.  We always had chicken
>noodle soup followed by either fried chicken or breaded veal/pork cutlets
>with rice or mashed potatoes and a side dish of cucumber salad.  The meal
>was finished with some homemade pastry, cookies, or cake.

Joe,

Your mother and mine had to know each other because our Sunday dinners were
identical.

Gabor D. Farkas

On Friday, July 26 at 11:30pm, TVO, Ontario's public, commercial free
television, will show "Stranger Than Paradise".  The film is listed as a
1984 comedy-drama staring John Lurie and Eszter Balint.  It's a low budget
black and white film in which Brooklyn lowlife Willie and his buddy drive
Willie's Hungarian cousin Eva to Florida.  Although some Hungarian is
spoken, most of the dialogue is in English.  (1hr.40mins.)

When the film was playing in Toronto a movie critic who really liked the
film said that "Stranger Than Paradise" is "odder than hell".  I'd agree!

Joe Szalai

The mothers of Joe and Gabor must have got around, because (though my own
English and Welsh family dinners were different) in Banska Stiavnica my
Slovak in-laws' Sunday dinners were the same.  And the cucumber salad was made
with peeled sliced cucumbers in vinegar and water, salted, peppered, and
red with paprika?

Norma Rudinsky


On Sat, 20 Jul 1996, S or G Farkas wrote:

> At 11:47 AM 7/20/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>
> >Traditionally, Sunday dinner was the most important meal of the week at our
> >house.  It was served at noontime and we almost always had guests, or,
> >conversely, we were guests at someone's home.  I loved Sunday dinners
> >because  the food was good and it was predictable.  We always had chicken
> >noodle soup followed by either fried chicken or breaded veal/pork cutlets
> >with rice or mashed potatoes and a side dish of cucumber salad.  The meal
> >was finished with some homemade pastry, cookies, or cake.
>
> Joe,
>
> Your mother and mine had to know each other because our Sunday dinners were
> identical.
>
> Gabor D. Farkas
>

Barnabas Bozoki wrote:
>
> Tibor Benke was looking for a spice dictionary. I think he ment the
> following posting in TIPP #1621 from: 
> on Jan 3, 1995.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Reposted
>      Barna Bozoki

Barna!
Thanks for this dictionary! For years I've been trying to get my paws on
something like this! As some said
earlier, the new hungarian recepies call for all sorts of spices, but I had a
hard time figuring out what was
what. This will help a great deal.
Jozsi Hill 

Bob Hosh wrote:
>
> On Jul 16,  2:47pm, Hugh Agnew wrote:
> > One of my favorite Czech dishes is what we call "segedinsky gulas" (thus,
> > obviously, identified in the Czech mind--if anyone still knows geography--
> > with Szeged).  It's made with pork, not beef, has sour cabbage in it, and
> > has a sour-cream paprika sauce.  Does this resemble any "real" Hungarian
> > dish in any way, and if so, is there any demonstrable connection to Szeged?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Hugh Agnew
> > 
>
> This is interesting, a good friend of mine recently visited Germany where she
> had "Szegedin Goulasch" and wanted to know how to make it. It too, was
> described as made with pork.  What Hugh and my friend described sounds
> suspeciously like "Szekely gulyas", a dish with an interesting history. Or is
> it a dish that is only made outside of Hungary? I've never encounter the name
> "Szegedi gulyas".  Can anyone shed more light on this subject?
>
> Bob Hosh
> 

Szegedi gulyas is the same as bogracs gulyas, but one adds vegetables
(zo:ldse'g) to it. I add carrots, green
or white beans, two or three sliced mushrooms. It is mentioned in a hungarian
cookbook "Szaka'csko:nyv", so it
is a "legal" dish.
Jo' e'tva'gyat!
Jozsi Hill

Since writing the preceding post a little earlier
this morning, I have received several pieces of e-mail
from American friends who have also been dismayed by
the omission of the Hungarian athletes during the Parade
of Nations part of the ceremony.

I have also checked out "http://www.atlanta.olympic.org"
where under the guide to the program, under the heading
"Parade of the Nations," *all* nations are represented
(Hungary would have come just after Hong Kong . . .
just where NBC cut to that interview with a member of
the Dream Team . . . ) . . . Also, they indicate those
countries, 14 in all, that participated in the first
modern olympics 100 years ago in 1896. Hungary was one
of those coutnries . . .

Again, it seems to me that NBC has done something
reprehensible by not showing *all* the participating
nations during the Parade of the Nations . . . I am
sure that Hungary wasn't the only nation omitted, and
I am also sure that regardless of which nations have
been omitted, by not giving a chance for *all* to be seen,
the whole has been irrevocably diminished . . .

Steven C. Scheer

>Andy Kozma wrote:
>
>>On the other hand,maybe it is too personal to ask,but what are your
>>means now to live in the Stats,after your forced resignation?And on
>>the other hand maybe you could go back whereever  they take you?
>;-)Good luck.
>
>You are right! It is too personal. So please don't ask. ;-)
>
>NPA.
>
Ok.so I don't ask,but what are you doing otherwise?Do you spend your time
now in front of the computer,whatching whatis wrongwith someones writing?Or
just write to the Forum
and the Hungary list?
Is this too personal also?
A.K.

To tell you the truth Tibor I was astounded of the tone off your letter.I
thought there going to be blistering attacks for me to dare to maybe critise
this thread.Our Pal PNA
tone was not so coniciliatory,but that what I expected.
My impression is and was that on this thread there are more academics then
any "ordinary" person.Some are even go so far as to give there curiculum
vite,wich is absurd,since it is nobodys bussiness.How hard it was to be a
refuggee is well known
from the people who came here in 56.Most of us made the ultimate effort to
make a living,and some drifted to more academic studys.
I never believed that any person with higher education is worth more than
myself,who finished only Gimnazium.Believe you me a lot of that staff what
we learned there had absolutly no us in,at least my life.A doctor knows how
to treat sick people but when he needs financial advice they turn to a
specialist on that subject.Life taught me a lot of things,some very
cruel,but most of it quite good.I did not loose faith in human beings.That
is the most important thing for me.I belive we are all human beings,and I
never could understand how they are able to take away somebodie else life.I
don't see any reason either in arguments,since there are no winners just
loosers.Should that be in a family,friends or in a Thread.
I dpn't ow anybody anithing except my wife and my Son.I paid my dues and
that is the way I want to finish my life.
At the same time I try to enjoy it,and since I made it to retier,I don't
give a dam what anybody else thinks of me.My small family knows who and what
I am,and that is the important factor for me.
Sorry to loose you,even if sometimes your letters where also a little high
handed for me.
Best of luck in the futuere regardless what others say.
Andy.

In article >,
 says...
>
>At 11:39 AM 7/18/96 -0400, Zoltan Szekely > wrote:
>> There are a lot of antisemitic
>>people, who are not nazis. The two notions are not in coincidence.
>>Louis Farrakhan is said to be antisemitic. But nazi? A black guy?
>
>Being a nazi is an equal opportunity position. As far as I am concerned,
>based on what Farrakhan preaches about Jews, and whites in general, he
>qualifies.

Completely correct Gabor. Black fascism is just as rife and deeply
entrenched as any other type of fascism (and worse, it will gain
momentum while politically correct zealots prevent even the public
acknowledgement of its existence.)

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC

SUBJECT: Olympics... (((((((((( DRINK PEPSI )))))))))


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I was too, deeply disappointed.

Especially in view of the fact, that Hungary has one of the deepest and
richest olympic traditions, ever since the modern games started.

..And let me tell you, it has happened several times already in the past
couple of games and international events, watched from the US.

I refuse to believe it is intentional, never the less, it is most
annoying.
I personally, couldn't care less about this hyper of the Dream Team
anyway.

Let me assure you all, from now on...  it is PEPSI for me.

Dr. Laszlo

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

In article >, 
says...
>Tibor Benke asks about how paprika arrived in Hungary.

A book I have *Hungarian Paprika Through the Ages* by Zoltan Halasz
(published by Corvina Press 1963) states that paprika was brought
to Europe by Vasco da Gama and Columbus from the New World. By the
beginning of the 16th century it was establishing itself in Central
Europe (via the Iberian peninsula.) This is a fabulous little book
with lots of historical, scientific and culinary notes as well as
many an amusing anecdotal story.

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC

In article >,
 says...
>
>Traditionally, Sunday dinner was the most important meal of the week at our
>house.  It was served at noontime and we almost always had guests, or,
>conversely, we were guests at someone's home.  I loved Sunday dinners
>because  the food was good and it was predictable.  We always had chicken
>noodle soup followed by either fried chicken or breaded veal/pork cutlets
>with rice or mashed potatoes and a side dish of cucumber salad.  The meal
>was finished with some homemade pastry, cookies, or cake.

Yes, that's exactly the kind of Sunday (noonday)/dinner I
remember, too. Perhaps the only thing I might add is that
instead of the cucumber salad we may have had regular salad,
that is, salad made with Boston lettuce-type lettuce . . .
except the dressing would be this lovely sweet-and-sour
concuction made with sugar, vinegar, and water . . .
Also, fried potatoes would be in order at times,
like french fries, except in my childhood they were cut
into circles and called "rosejbni."

Steven C. Scheer

In article >,
 says...
[delicious rendition of Sunday dinner snipped...drool..]
>Anyone up to getting hungry again by talking/writing/thinking about
>Hungarian food?

Yes, but I'm gonna need a new keyboard from salivating on reading your
posting ;-)  When I'm next over in North America you're gonna be my guest
at the best Hungarian style (perhaps mixed in with a few Greek items)
banquet you've ever had (anyway, I'll try.) Is it a date?

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC

On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 02:54:45 -0700, Tibor Benke > wrote:

>Eva Balogh writes:
>
>>At 08:41 AM 7/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>>Tibor Benke was looking for a spice dictionary. I think he ment the
>>>following posting in TIPP #1621 from: 
>>>on Jan 3, 1995.
>>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Slightly deviating from the topic....

I wonder whether is common knowledge that paprika may have saved
Hungarians and other Central European nations from scurvy. If I am not
mistaken Albert von Szent Gyorgyi extracted vitamin C (ascorbic acid)
from paprika, in which is found in concentrations much higher that
equivalent weights of citrus.

Besides 'szilva lekva'r,' there was another lekva'r, made from
rosehips, that was staple food in Transylvania. It also has large
quantities of ascorbic acid. Does anyone remember the name of rosehips
lekva'r?

Ro'zsa Bandi
> =============================================================
      Andrew J. Rozsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 < OR >  
> -------------------------------------------------------------
          Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
> =============================================================

Anyone have a recipe for pacsni?.my dad would like to know....

                                                 Jules Hernadi

On 20 Jul 1996 12:14:00 GMT,  (Steven C.
Scheer) wrote:

>I was watching the opening ceremonies of the Olympics
>eagerly awaiting the parade of nations and even more
--------------- snip ------------------------------

>I felt both outraged and heart-sick at this. Even if NBC were to
>apologize (which they won't, of course,) the "harm" can
>never be undone.
-------------------- snip --------------------------------

Spoken like a true gentleman and professor of English. :-)

Since I am neither, I can afford to say I was pissed!

The best revenge would be a showing like in Rome (Hungary came in
about 4th in the total number of medals). Unfortunately, about the
only good thing that came out of communist regimes, an excellent
state-supported sports program, appears to have gone by the wayside. I
can only hope that my namesake does well in swimming.

To make matters worse, I read somewhere that they will be doing away
with modern pentathlon.

Oh, well.

And while on the topic of Olympics... since we are already going to
see more synchronized swimming than soccer, I expect that it's only a
matter of time before "bowling for dollars" is an Olympic sport.

Only in America.....

Rozsa Bandi.

P.S.  Pista: Isn't it amazing that after all these years in this
country we would still much rather root for Hungary than, say, in
direct competition, the U.S.? Or is my assumption false and I am an
exception?

> =============================================================
      Andrew J. Rozsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 < OR >  
> -------------------------------------------------------------
          Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
> =============================================================

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On Sat, 20 Jul 1996, Norma Rudinsky wrote:
> Slovak in-laws' Sunday dinners were the same.  And the cucumber salad was mad
e
> with peeled sliced cucumbers in vinegar and water, salted, peppered, and
> red with paprika?

 But of course :-)!

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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On Sat, 20 Jul 1996, ANDREW ROZSA wrote:
> mistaken Albert von Szent Gyorgyi extracted vitamin C (ascorbic acid)
> from paprika, in which is found in concentrations much higher that
> equivalent weights of citrus.

 Indeed he did - and received the Nobel prize for the related research,
too. He was the only Hungarian who earned that honor for research done in
country.

 Go Szeged!

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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Ciao Tutti! Sziasztok Mindenki!  Hello All!

Glad to see you've all been busy and productive in my absence!  Such varied
topics.... can't say that I did not miss ya all (well...only
sometimes)...the rest of the time, I was too busy eating all the goodies you
are writing about back and forth... and then some more!  Can't say that
returning after the TWA incident on a Jumbo, was an entirely calm experience
either!  George:  Re your post as below:

I was astounded to re discover several times while dining in various parts
of Hungary, during which time weddings were ongoing simultaneously, that
wedding presents have not really become as popular as are here in NA.  Money
is still the #1.  Of course, you do give it, in exchange for a dance with
the bride.  The amount of money deposited into an old "la'bas", was indeed
enough to spin anyone's head around.  It does appear that, presents are
limited to direct family.  All others give the green stuff.  (In Hungary's
instance, the orange stuff).  Hope this helps.
PS:  Perhaps a cyberdance with your cousin might be in order??? - Could be
really unique!
Regards,
Aniko


At 12:02 AM 7/19/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Hey, another cousin is getting married this August (in Szekesfehevar) to
>a Brit I know (what a small world!) but what is the usual/traditional
>Hungarian present to a female relative from an older male cousin for her
>marriage?....please advise and excuse my naivete..
>
>Regards
>
>--
>George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
>Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC
>
>

At 04:32 PM 7/20/96 GMT, George Szaszvari wrote:

>Yes, but I'm gonna need a new keyboard from salivating on reading your
>posting ;-)

If I can't make others salivate, then what's the point of it all anyway?

>When I'm next over in North America you're gonna be my guest
>at the best Hungarian style (perhaps mixed in with a few Greek items)
>banquet you've ever had (anyway, I'll try.) Is it a date?

You bet!  And a few Greek items thrown in as well?  Hmm.  Sounds promising.
But, umm, do you think people might talk?

Joe Szalai

In article >, #
says...
>I wonder whether is common knowledge that paprika may have saved
>Hungarians and other Central European nations from scurvy. If I am not
>mistaken Albert von Szent Gyorgyi extracted vitamin C (ascorbic acid)
>from paprika, in which is found in concentrations much higher that
>equivalent weights of citrus.

Perhaps not commonly known world-wide, but I suspect most(?) Hungarians
know. Zoltan Halasz, in his paprika book,  discusses paprika research
(but I do not see any mention of the famous Albert von Szent-Gyorgy: when
and where was his work done?) and would it be reasonable to suppose that
it helped nurture the Hungarian crop to being the best available today?
The Spanish stuff obtainable in Britain is pale by comparison.

>Besides 'szilva lekva'r,' there was another lekva'r, made from
>rosehips, that was staple food in Transylvania. It also has large
>quantities of ascorbic acid. Does anyone remember the name of rosehips
>lekva'r?

My now frail mother (born Kolozsvar,) tells me about *hecsedli* (rosehip
jam.) Is this what you meant?

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC

From: Tibor Benke >
Subject:      Re: Curious Food Names in Hungarian Cookbooks . . .

at 5:32 a.m. 7/17/96/ Eva Balogh wrote in reply to Agnes:
>
>>New subject:  I just learned last year that "csombor"is nothing less than
>>oregano!  Did you guys/girls knew that?
>>
>        No, I didn't. Most interesting. I didn't even know that Hungarian
>cuisine used oregano until this morning when I read a Transylvanian dish,
>asking for "csombor." Needless to say, I skipped "csombor," although most
>likely my intellectual curiosity should have kicked in, but it didn't. The
>Hungarian dictionary says that "csombor" is Slavic and it is "folkish
>[ne'pies]. Otherwise, apparently we call it "borsfu"." I have never heard of
>that either.
>

Sorry to bring this up again, but we seemed to have gone culinarily astray.
Oregano (Origanum vulgare) is rarely if at all used in Hungarian cooking. It's
Hungarian name is "szurokfu" or vadmajornna. Marjoram (Origanum majorana) is
used in Hungrian cooking, especially Transylvanian cooking.

On the other hand, "csombor" or "borsfu" (Satureia hortensis) called Summer
Savory in English is used a lot in German and Transylvanian cookery. The German
name is Bohnenkraut and no bean or cabbage dish is authentic without it.  This
herb intensifies the flavor of beans, fresh or dried.

My 1970 four volume set of Orszagh's dictionary does not even list "oregano",
but does mention "szurokfu" on p. 1866. "Csombor" is listed on p. 312.

Another interesting list of culinary herbs is "Herbs and spices of
Transylvania" on pages 342-345 of Paul Kovi's Transylvanian Cusine, New York:
Crown Publishers, Inc., 1985. Or check out his earlier Hungarian version  of
this book: Erdelyi lakoma, Corvina, 1980. "Csombor" is delt with on page 344 of
the former and page 235 of the latter.


Bob Hosh

In article >,
 says...
>The mothers of Joe and Gabor must have got around, because (though my own
>English and Welsh family dinners were different) in Banska Stiavnica my
>Slovak in-laws' Sunday dinners were the same.  And the cucumber salad was
>made with peeled sliced cucumbers in vinegar and water, salted, peppered,
>and red with paprika?

Well, they certainly must have, because all this brings back my childhood
memories of the dinner table too! Your cucumber salad and Joe Szalai's
menu was very much my own home diet! There was also a cake, or rather a
pastry roll, with the delicious walnut filling (ground into a creamy thick
texture)...that was another of my mother's regular productions.

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC

I feel compelled to join in to describe a typical Sunday dinner at my
grandmother's house in Arpadhon, Louisiana. The meal started with chicken soup
with fine cut homemade noodles and was followed by roast stuffed chicken. The
chicken did double duty; it was stuffed with a bread,liver and herb stuffing
and simmered in a stock pot for the soup, then browned in the oven for the main
course. This method is mentioned in George Lang's cookbook as being Chinese in
origin! The roast chicken was served with potatos, usually pan roasted or
mashed. Vegetables were paraj (creamed spinach) and the cucumber salad everyone
seems to have had. Dessert was most often freshly made fank filled with
homemade strawberry jam.

My granny was a damn good cook!  <GRIN>

Bob

Sziasztok!

My name's Nicola (Miklrs) and I would like to get in touch with nice
Hungarian females with a sense of humour, aged 18-25, speaking Italian or
English, for lasting friendship. I'm 24 y.o., 175 cms tall, dark haired,
brown eyed, slim; I have a degree in Business Economics and I will be
relocating to Budapest next Autumn for a one and a half year's period of
work. I'd like to start a correspondence for the time being, and meet you
in person on the first occasion. If interested, write me to my E-Mail
address:  
or send mail to:
C.I. 25456456, fermo posta  Soave Mantovano (MN), C.A.P. 46040, ITALY.

NPA wrote (on his Peto3fi Ra1dio1 interview)
> And believe it or not, the interviewer just verified everything. ;-)
Really? In that case, he should have never let you say that Argonne was a
"va1llalat" (company). By definition, va1llalat means an ordinary
profit-oriented company, and Argonne is a national laboratory.
NPA also said in the interview (posted on s.c.m by Joe Pannon):

| az e-mail cim, amiben kodolva ugyan, de a vallalat neve
| is benne van, ez esetben pl. "anl", ami Argonne National Laboratory-t
| jelentett.  Ezt egy kivulallo nem tudhatja, csak az, aki nyomoz.
(The name of the company appears only encoded in the e-mail address in this
case as "anl", meaning Argonne National Laboratory. An outsider can not know
this, only someone who investigates.)

Anybody who checks out www.anl.gov knows what ANL stands for: getting this
piece of information takes exactly 20 seconds of "investigation".  The
fact-checking department of Peto3fi Ra1dio1 did not do a very thorough job on
this interview -- I doubt there was any fact checking, if obvious untruths
like the above were not caught.

As for the rest, it is still shrouded in mystery why NPA pretends to be the
victim of a witch hunt, given that he didn't follow through with any legal
procedure. What he claims is called "wrongful termination" and there are very
elaborate rules and regulations protecting government employees from this.
If NPA wanted his case reopened, I'd be glad to write a letter of support.

In the past few weeks I'm becoming more and more convinced NPA is not a
hardcore nazi, he is just plain nutso. His posting on HUNGARY how the
communists initiated the 1848 revolution went a long way towards showing that
blood libel is just a small part of his conspiracy theories. He sees himself
as the victim of yet another (no doubt liber-bolshie) conspiracy and witch
hunt, and I'd be glad to support his efforts to reopen the case at ANL.
Nutso or not, he is entitled to due process.

> You mean to his supervisor? But just go ahead, make my day. Make a fool out
> of yourself. Please let me know how Mr. Szilagyi responded to you. Do not
> leave any little piece out of it. :-)
But before committing myself to your case, I would like to get some
corroboration from your supervisor, especially as there is this rumor that
s/he was also fired on account of your behavior. Is this true or untrue? You
seem to be implying this is totally untrue, but I actually haven't seen any
direct statement from you saying so. So let me ask directly: was your
supervisor fired/laid off/terminated/pensioned off or does s/he still work at
Argonne? Would this person be willing to corroborate your story, or do you
see that person as part of the conspiracy against you?

> Felado :  [United States]
> >        Oh, I admit. It was an "icipici szabadsagharc," and hardly anyone
> >calls it that.
> >
> >        Eva Balogh
>
> Whoever can say that must be  an "icipici tortenesz"

This little exchange shows very clearly how debates about issues are
transformed into debates about persons. Whether 56 was a "szabadsa1gharc" has
been debated many times, and rather heatedly, on HUNGARY.  Here the compromise
offered by E1va (that it was an "itsy bitsy war of independence") is obviously
ironic, but nevertheless it is still about the issue. NFerenc's response that
E1va Balogh is an "itsy bitsy historian" is an out and out personal attack.
The issue is now irrelevant: what remains is NFerenc's clear desire to have
the last word and win some rhethorical points. When the other readers cheer
and congratulate the instigators of such attacks, the virtual community is
just taken over by thugs, as happened on FORUM.

Andra1s Kornai

I forgot the best part: during early summer when new potatoes appeared,
instead of mashed potatoes we had new potatoes, fried in oil and sprinkled
with parsley...

Gabor D. Farkas