Tisztel Kultura es P Katona

A Landesmann cikkeddel kapcsolatban ket udvarias kerdes:

1. Ha Landesman rabbi azt mondta, amit mondott, mindenkinek joga van
egyeterteni, ellenezni, vagy kozonbosnek lenni. De ha sajto es szolas
szabadsag van ma Magyarorszagon, akkor a kerdes: miert hazaarulas, ha
valaki el a jogaival es kimondja amit gondol meg ha a tobbseg nem is ert
vele egyet? (en sem, de ezert nem kell senkit se halatlansaggal,
hutlenseggel, hazaarulassal es mas h betus szavakkal illetni)

2. Meg tudnad mondani, hol szerepel a Talmudban  a kovetkezo:

> magyar hadseregnek!  A bocsanatkeresrol:  a Talmud szerint a goj-nak
> (barki, aki nem zsido) adott szo ervenytelenitheto belsoleg es ez nem
> szamit bunnek.

Szivesen utananezek es megirom, hogy szerepel az eredetiben!

Egy megjegyzes a kovetkezo kiteteledre:
 
> Archelogiai teny, hogy a Biblai egyes reszeit egyenesen atirtak izraeli
> nevekre es helyszinekre o-babiloni (sumer) agyagtablakrol, (pl. Job
> konyve, eredeti neve
>  Izdu-bar) es az is egyre bizonyitottabb, hogy a magyar, mint
> agglutinativ (ragozo)

Ennek van alapja, hiszen Mozes 5 konyvenek egyik forrasa Hamurabi
torvenykonyve volt. De ha jol megvizsgalod Hamurabi nevet, latod, hogy o is
zsido volt:  Hamu Rabbi :-)))))

Udv, JV

A napokban volt egy nagyon tanulsagos beszelgetesem egy
ismerosommel. Meg kell mondjam hogy nagyon keveset tudok a magyarok
sumer eredeterol, de a tema egyszeruen lenyugozo, es azok az ervek
amiket baratom ennek tamogatasara felhozott, a kolteszet hatarait
suroljak. 

   Ezek foleg az osi nevek magyar eredetet mutatjak:

  -eloszor is az Ur meg Uruk (azaz Urak) nevu sumer varosok magyar
neve nem szorul magyarazatra.
  -Mezopotamia = Mezo-fold-arja
  -az sumer eposz hose, Gilgames tulajdonkeppen Gall Nemes
  -a sumer Noe, Utnapistim valojaban Ur-Nap-Isten. 
  -Istar, a termekenyseg istennoje nevebol szarmazik a magyar Isten
szo, es a magyaroknal a Miasszonyunk formajaban maradt meg.
  -ekiras = rovasiras, nyilvan.

   Ehhez en meg hozzatennem azt hogy a sumer agyagtablakon
megtalalhato a Lu'das Matyi, valamint hogy az osmagyarok halmokat
emeltek a vezerek holtteste fele, nyilvan a piramisok emlekere. 

   Ha annak idejen ezt Vorosmarty es Arany tudtak volna, nem kellett volna
annyit erolkodni a hianyzo magyar hoseposz bepotlasara. Csak at kellett
volna irni az agyagtablakrol a tortenetet ahogyan Gall Nemes es Urnapisten
egy sas hatan szarnyalnak Mezofoldarja folott.

   Ugy gondolom, hogy az ilyen osszefuggesek kitalalasa elenkiti az
elmet, frissiti a szellemet, enyhiti a honfibu'-t stb. Nagyon szivesen
olvasnek hasonlo erveket nemzetunk eredeterol. Csak rajtunk all, hogy
megteremtsuk a harmadik evezred mitoszait.

   Bar csak egy tudomanyos reszletkerdessel foglalkozik, figyelmetekbe
ajanlom az oroszlanok eredeterol szolo rovid tanulmanyt a
homepage-emen (http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/boloni/personal.html)

              B.Laci

STAR WARS & MUSIC

By Nicholas Meyer

      It is an interesting to observe that sound always dominate
picture. If you are in any doubt, simply drive around in a car with the
radio or cassette player blasting and look out the window. The nature of
the music affects the mood of what you are seeing. It is never the other
way around. If you play happy music, even some fairly squalid and
dispiriting surroundings appear more cheerful. If you play sad or
ominous music, the most agreeable vistas assume a sinister aspect.
      It is this fact that makes film music so important, for no matter
what the cinematographers photograph, nor how skillfully such images are
edited, it is an inescapable fact that the music which accompanies them
will dominate and, in the end, dictate the ambience. No image, however
exultantly chosen, can overcome the effect of Chopin's Funeral March
played against it. Actors may hate the fact (Bette Dvais had few kind
words for Max Steiner, who tipped all her cards), but in most cases
audiences recognize this reality and filmmakers frequently depend upon
it.
      Richard Wagner had the biggest influence on film music until the
advent of rock and roll. Wagner, 19th century scoundrel and genius par
excellence, pioneered the handy concept of the leitmotif, that briefest
of signature tunes, which can be orchestrated any which way, time and
again, to signify a character, a prop or an emotion. In film, with its
snippets of celluloid, this short-hand approach proved ideal. Movie
composers learned from Wagner and his early imitators (Richard Strauss,
Erich Wolfgang Korngold) to fashion short, punchy themes and play with
them in endless combinations throughout the film. The love theme Alex
North wrote for Spartacus and that which Franz Waxman contributed to
Bride of Frankenstein are based on only three notes each - and they
aren't the same three notes, either - how's that for short and punchy?
      Originally poured over the entire product like ketchup, film music
as such ebbed from fashion by the mid-sixties. Mike Nichols' canny use
of Simon and Garfunkel in The Graduates showed the film studios another
way to make money. Pop record and ticket sales could cross fertilize. It
wasn't long before entire films were ancillary to the records which
spawned them - Hollywood's version of the tail wagging the dog. From an
economic standpoint this may have made sense; as for the dramatics of
film, however, the results were not always as happy as The Graduate.
      In the seventies there began a revival of film music proper, and
no practitioner of that craft was more successful than John Williams.
With such films as Jaws, with its shark motif (everyone goes around
dum-dum-dumming it to this day), Williams staked his claim to the
Wagnerian pedigree, claiming descent through Richard Strauss and such
Hollywood stalwarts as Erich Wolfgang Korngold, Max Steiner, Franz
Waxman, Alfred Newman, Bernard Herrmann and Miklos Rozsa.
      Williams, himself, has had many imitators, but no one has quite
hit the nail on the head so quarely. (It has been observed that the
first man who said a woman's lips were like a rose was a genius; that
the second man who said it was an idiot.)
      In the Star Wars trilogy, Williams may have found the ideal
vehicle for his Wagnerian talents, for Star Wars was nothing if not a
Wagner Ring cycle for mystical teenagers of the latter 20th century. Not
for nothing was the term Space Opera coined to denote the work of George
Lucas and his brethen. Whether Lucas was consciously emulating Wagner's
Ring (four full-length operas, a sort of high-class Tolkien Lord of the
Rings saga), with its dwarfs, wizards, dragons, teachers, philosophy and
gold, or merely absorbing Wagner second hand, via such intermediaries as
Joseph Campbell and his The Hero of a Thousand Faces, the net effect was
much the same. Star Wars is eerily reminiscent of The Ring, so much so,
in fact, that I have seen at least one production of Die Valkyrie (at
Covent Garden), that was consciously modeled on Lucas' world, with the
Valkyries in black leather, studded with shining steel. (The programme
notes acknowledged the Lucas influence.)
      While one may care to debate Lucas' conscious debt to Wagner,
there is no missing Williams'. Although the rousing score he created for
the Star Wars films owes a superficial debt to the swashbucklers 
Korngold created for the Errol Flynn films at Warner Bros. in the 
thirties, Williams' ultimate model -and Korngold's - was Richard the 
First. It is altogether fitting that this be so in light of the very 
real thematic (no pun intended) connection between Star Wars and 
The Ring. Williams' music may lack the same profundity, but Star Wars 
isn't literally The Ring, anyway, rather a popular simulacrum. As such 
the always hummable marches and "etheral" love tunes of Williams fit 
Lucas' work like a tight glove.
      Like Wagner, Williams proved adept at minting signature tunes for
all the major characters and emotions - strident, brooding marches for
Darth Vader and "the dark side", yearning strings and celeste for the
vast infinitude of space and for the innocence of young Luke Skywalker,
a mysterious, nostalgic sound for Obi-Wan Kenobi and the lost Jedi, a
mystical-but-slightly-mischievous tune for Yoda and an over all
triumphant brass-and-percussion-dominated main Star Wars theme to
embrace the whole. Williams' tunes in their variety of manifestations
come to be automatically associated in the audiences' mind with their
subjects, even as Wagner's, and like Wagner, Williams' orchestra is
huge. Key-changes abound (Wagner was the king of modulation) and the 
tunes have the happy knack of sounding slightly familiar, although not 
quite placeable. There is a singable or, at the least, hummable quality 
to most of them; in some cases one could even imagine lyrics. Williams'
elves and fairies give the nod to those of Mendelssohn in A Midsummer
Night's Dream; his "space" music owes something to planets of Holst, but
the sum total is something uniquely John Williams.
      In addition, in his scoring, Williams was able to take advantage
of the many technical improvements in sonic reproducion and
transmission; the detail of his orchestration can be heard with a
clarity unavailable to a previous generation of film music composers and
such a feasibility encourages if not mandates the prodigal employment of
orchestral detail. No rock and roll ensemble, however inspired, can
deliver the kind of musical variety obtainable with the recources of 110
instruments. In listening to the Star Wars music, listeners can immerse
themselves in the sound of a symphony orchestra to a degree
unprecedented, and in the progress, they may acquire a taste for more
sophisticated fare.
      Whether it is important or not to discover Wagner's Ring, after
seeing Lucas', you could do worse than revisit Lucas' through John
Williams' ingratiating and operatic score.

Jo reggelt!
Itt egy hosszabb cikk, ami az emlitett SW soundtrack egysegkiadassal jott.
Nyilvan lehet vele vitatkozni, meg nyilvan erosen propaganda-ize van nehol
(egy CD-hez mellekelt irasnak valoszinu kell is hogy legyen), de van benne
nehany szempont, amit erdekesnek talalok. Nagyjabol:
1. A klasszikus zenevel (elsosorban Wagnerrel es a leitmotiffal) valo
kapcsolat. Errol esetleg szivesen hallanam zenerto emberkek velemenyet
(Reisz Feri, Gyorgy Ur stb.). 
2. Nem tudom van-e a vonalban filmzene-rajongo, de erdekes a
filmzene-mint-olyan tortenelme is. Errol is ir erdekes dolgokat a cikk. A
cikkbol ki lehet huvelyezni egy ilyen vazlatot:
- a harmincas evekben az Errol Flynns stilusu filmekben elt ez a fajta
Wagner-stilus. Itt megemlitodik Rozsa Miklos, akit en speciel is nagyon
szeretek.
- Aztan az 50-60-as evek jellegtelen hatterzeneje utan
- a 70-es evekben egyreszt a rock and roll miatt
- masreszt a Williams-felek munkassaga miatt at- es felertekelodott a
filmzene. Peldanak okaert az egyik kedvencem a Godfather a'la Nino Rota
1972-es. 
Ilyesmikrol szivesen olvasnam a velemenyeteket.
3. Bar mar agyontargyaltak, erdekes tema a Star Warsnak a kulonbozo
kulturalis hagyomanyokkal, motivumokkal; a nyugati kulturara nagy hatassal
levo vallasi es mitologiai hagyomanyokkal valo kapcsolata. A cikkben
emlitett Ring ciklus, azaz a kelta mondakor (Artur and Co., az se
veletlen, hogy az Excaliburnak is Wagner volt a zeneje, nomeg Carmina
Burana) mellett felfedezhetok a filmben a kovetkezo dolgok:
- a western (elsosorban John Ford, ld. Luke mint farmergyerek)
- a tundermese
- II. vh. film (legicsata)
- keleti vallasok (az Ero)
- nyugati vallasok (jo-rossz harca stb.)
- operai es eposzi kellekek
- szinszimbolika. 
Nem tudom hol jarok sorilag, ugyhogy most abbafejezem, de folytatom a
temat. Szasztok jol
Dezso

Rakonczay Z. - Eltalaltad!  Azert nem valaszoltam a
cikkedre,
mert a lenyegevel egyetertek.  Ne felejtsd el, en azt irtam, hogy a
Halloweent
m a i  n y u g a t i  formajaban tartom elfogadhatatlannak.  Viszont nem
zarom ki 
a lehetoseget, hogy meghonosodjon M.O.-on, ha a meglevo tradiciok
lenyegebol nem
vesz el, hanem azokat g a z d a g i t j a.  Es itt van a kutya lenyege
eltemetve,
ahogy Fulig Jimmy mondta a "Piszkos Fred a kapitany"-ban.  Kosz a
leveledet....

            Riesz F, Zsolt - Koszi a szolidaritast,  en ugy erzem ez a
minimum.
Ha nem reagalunk a bennunket kisebbito, alaptalan es szandekosan
lekicsinyito
megnyilvanulasokra, ezzel hallgatolagosan beismerjuk, hogy  i g a z amit
allitottak.
Az identitasunk hatarait vedjuk ily modon, mint egyen es mint kozosseg.
Ha nem tesszuk,
megint mi leszunk a bunos nep, mint Trianonban vagy 1945 utan. 

            Fischer I.
-                                                                              
           
Nem irtad meg, hogy mifele hazaarulasert iteltek el?
                          A haza definiciojat, amit kertel, megadtam
harom nappal
                          ezelotti, a Kulturan meg is jelent
valaszcikkemben,
                           <Halloween osszefoglalo/Szalma Gabornak..etc>
                          bar ugy erzem, mintha a vaknak kene
megmagyaraznom,
                          milyen szinu a piros, vagy a feher..esetleg a
zold!
                          Hoppa, ez mar antiszemitizmussal hataros
sovinizmus,
                          Ezennel visszavonom... 


                          
            Bort, buzat, bekesseget!

            Katona Pali

            >
             USA
             
            
                                      
     
es berrabszolga

Sziasztok

Par evvel ezelott olvastam az Izmaelt.
Nem emlekszem pontosan inkabb csak a benyomasaimat
probalom osszefoglalni.
A dolgoknak - a termeszet es az ember - egy uj 
megkozeliteset kaptam a konyvtol.
Nagyon tetszet a meghagyo es az elvevo csoportositas.
A masodik reszben ahol mar belekeverte a bibliat
es mintegy atirva azt (legalabbis en azt ereztem)
meselte el a tortenteket, nekem mar santitot a dolog.
Ettol fuggetlenul szerintem is mindenkinek el kellene 
olvasni, sok plusz nyertem belole.

Kugyi

>Es ha mar zenenel tartunk, mar nem emlekszem, ki volt, akitol a TIPP
>erkezett Bartok 44 hegeduduojara. Koszonet erte, varom a hasonlo jellegu
>tippeket.

Ugyanaz, aki a Suto-reszletet kuldte be. :))

******

Erdekes, amit Star Wars-generaciorol irtal. En is ugyanabba a korosztalyba
tartozom, nekem is nagy elmeny volt, de megsem tartom valamifele 
nemzedeki meghatarozo dolognak. 
Nem volt ott azert akkora u"r. Ott volt Hobo, a Ricse, kesobb a Bikini
(a Nagy Ferosra gondolok !!), a Bizottsag, aztan az ujhullamosok: a Rolls
Frakcio, az Europa Kiado; masfelol ott volt a tanchazmozgalom.
Meg ne feledd azt se, hogy akkor a zenei piac nem volt olyan nyilt, mint
ma: nagy esemeny volt, ha a sarki lemezboltba erkezett nehany tizeves indiai
vagy Yugoton Deep Purple-lemez. Es: akkor volt A Koncert (Illes es tsai) is.

Feri

(mar keszul az olasz elmenybeszamolo, varjatok csak...:))

Vasarnap (24.) este, Duna TV. Rendezo: Vincent Ward (A navigator).