FACTS:
Hungarian Radio reported first at 12:03 pm yesterday that police had removed a
banner comparying the Horn-government to the Pol Pot regime and fined HUF 15,00
0
(one and half times the monthly minimum wage) each of the men carrying it in
front of the National Museum at the anniversary celebration of the March 15,
1848 revolution.  According to the spokesman of the police, the men were fined
"for disturbing the peace and public order and for comparing the government to 
a
fascist regime."

According to further newscasts, the police spokesman also said that the police
would analyze the videotapes made of various demonstrations and initiate charge
s
where it would see fit.


Comments:
Since 1990, this is the first time that such an open violation of the freedom o
f
speech has occurred in Hungary. If the two men decide not to pay the fine, they
may be thrown into prison and become Hungary's first political prisoners.

The threat of the police to analyze videotapes will instill fears in the
population and inhibit them from taking part in demonstrations. Don't forget
that this is a populace which has not at all unlearned yet  the fears of the
totalitarian past.

Request:
Anyone wishing to inform Amnesty International, please fax to Ivan Fiser
(+44-171-956-1157) or use AI's E-mail (GreenNet) .) Outside
Hungary, you may also contact your local AI-chapter (AI local chapters, by
virtue of its charter, are not allowed to take up human rights violations in
their respective countries.)

[reported by Istvan Lovas, journalist in Hungary, member of the six-party
curatorium to Hungarian Radio]

Hello !

Many of us expressed great appreciation for a short article written
a few years ago titled "Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian
Tradition: The Myth and The Reality".

Dr Sherif Abdel Azeem > has continued working
on the subject and has now published a book with the same name. The
book follows the spirit of the initial article, and expands on it,
including many more detailed examples of what is being said. It is
filled with interesting [referenced] quotes such as:

    Billy Graham, the eminent Christian evangelist has recognized this
  fact:  "Christianity cannot compromise on the question of polygamy.
  If present-day Christianity cannot do so, it is to its own detriment.
  Islam has permitted polygamy as a solution to social ills and has
  allowed a certain degree of latitude to human nature but only within
  the strictly defined framework of the law. Christian countries make a
  great show of monogamy, but actually they practise polygamy. No one is
  unaware of the part mistresses play in Western society. In this respect
  Islam is a fundamentally honest religion, and permits a Muslim to marry
  a second wife if he must, but strictly forbids all clandestine amatory
  associations in order to safeguard the moral probity of the community."

This 77 page book is available *free of charge*, on a first-come
first-served basis, to all individuals and organisations, anywhere in
the world. To get your copy, send an email to >
with your full name and complete postal address. For organisations, please
indicate number of copies required [sorry, only 1 copy per individual]. The
book will be mailed to you directly by the publisher. 

An electronic, plain text version [2135 lines] of the book may be obtained
directly via the Web, anonymous ftp, or by email:
1. WWW URL: ftp://ftp.isnet.org/pub/outgoing/sherif.txt
2. Anon ftp: site=ftp.isnet.org, dir=/pub/outgoing, filename=sherif.txt
3. By Email: send email as follows :
	------------------------------------------------
	  To: 
	  Subject:			[leave blank]

	  connect ftp.isnet.org
	  chdir /pub/outgoing/
	  get sherif.txt
	------------------------------------------------

Those wishing to keep copies on their home pages, ftp sites, etc are
encouraged to download the above file and keep online copies.  [please
do not make a link to this site since it is only temporary].

Please pass on this information to others, including organisations and
individuals who may not have access to the internet.

This valuable book starts off with:

     Five years ago, I read in the Toronto Star issue of July 3, 1990
   an article titled "Islam is not alone in patriarchal doctrines", by
   Gwynne Dyer. The article described the furious reactions of the
   participants of a conference on women and power held in Montreal to the
   comments of the famous Egyptian feminist Dr. Nawal Saadawi.	Her
   "politically incorrect" statements included : "the most restrictive
   elements towards women can be found first in Judaism in the Old
   Testament then in Christianity and then in the Quran"; "all religions
   are patriarchal because they stem from patriarchal societies"; and
   "veiling of women is not a specifically Islamic practice but an ancient
   cultural heritage with analogies in sister religions".
 ...
   What intrigued me the most about the Montreal conference was one
   question : Were the statements made by Saadawi, or any of her critics,
   factual ?  In other words, do Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have the
   same conception of women? Are they different in their conceptions ? Do
   Judaism and Christianity , truly, offer women a better treatment than
   Islam does? What is the Truth?

and ends with the following:

   At the end of this study, I would like to offer the following advice
   to the global Muslim community. So many Muslim women have been denied
   their basic Islamic rights for so long. The mistakes of the past have
   to be corrected. To do that is not a favor, it is a duty incumbent upon
   all Muslims.
 ...
   Furthermore, we must have the courage to confront our past and
   reject outright the traditions and customs of our forefathers
   whenever they contravene the precepts of Islam. Did the Quran not
   severely criticize the pagan Arabs for blindly following the
   traditions of their ancestors?
 ...
   It is to the non-Muslim reader, Jewish, Christian, or otherwise,
   that these final words are dedicated.  It is bewildering why the
   religion that had revolutionized the status of women is being singled
   out and denigrated as so repressive of women.  This perception about
   Islam is one of the most widespread myths in our world today.
 ...
   To label the status of women in the Muslim world today as "Islamic" is
   as far from the truth as labelling the position of women in the West
   today as "Judaeo-Christian".  With this understanding in mind, Muslims
   and non-Muslims should start a process of communication and dialogue in
   order to remove all misconceptions, suspicions, and fears. A peaceful
   future for the human family necessitates such a dialogue.
 ...
   Ambassador Herman Eilts, in a testimony in front of the committee on
   Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives of the United States
   Congress on June 24th, 1985, said, "The Muslim community of the globe
   today is in the neighbourhood of one billion.  That is an impressive
   figure.  But what to me is equally impressive is that Islam today is
   the fastest growing monotheistic religion.  This is something we have
   to take into account.  Something is right about Islam.  It is
   attracting a good many people." Yes, something is right about Islam and
   it is time to find that out. I hope this study is a step on this
   direction.


Thank you for your time.

Nadeem

In article > , 
writes:
>Az utolso FORUM szam amit lattam az 1927-es.

Igen, az volt az utolso, amit en is olvastam. Mivel az hix.mit.edu
szerver nem megy , nem ferek az ujsaghoz . Erdekes modon a  pesti
tukor is ures. Viszont aki megrendelte a lapot (en nem), annak ki-
kuldik rendesen.

Tamas

In article > Wally Keeler,
 writes:
>Your gaydar isn't working very well Gayorgy. When my wife and myself 
>strolled along the Danube promenade in '91, there's considerable gay 
>cruising.

Yeah, you are right. That place is full of gay whores, mostly
from Transylvania (Romanians and Hungarians).

Tamás

In article >,
 > wrote:
| > According to the spokesman of the police, each of them received
| >a  fine of  HUF 15,000 (one and a half time  the minimum monthly wage) for
| >comparing the government to a "fascist regime" and, thereby, for disturbing 
| >the peace and public order.
| 
| This is interesting because a virtually identical incident, but with the
| opposite direction, happened during the first year of the Antall
| government.  I think it was at the 1991 March 15 commemoration at the
| National Museum, when some Jewish group unfurled a large sign branding
| the Antall government Nazi-like, or something to that effect, thus
| making the opening salvo in the current battle of accusations and
| counter-accusations between Jewish and non-Jewish activists.
| 
| Of course at that time the provocators were not arrested by the
| authorities.  So we've come a long way in the last five years, haven't we?
| 
| Joe

Absolutely.. especially Mr Pellionisz did. After he labeled
as treason going to international authorities and forums 
to protest firing journalists from the state owned tv and 
radio for admittedly political reasons and using a law of the 
communist system to allow direct censorship and rule over
media by the government - he now calls the Amnesty
International on a single incident of one policeman 
FINING somebody for $100, that can be appealed in a court of
law - calling for this action before (or without mentioning)
any form of appeal and the response thereto. Indeed some of
us have come a long way. 

Istvan

In article >, tamas  > wrote:
>Harom napja nem tudom elerni a HIX ujsagjait, es itt sem latom oket.

Az utolso FORUM szam amit lattam az 1927-es.  Csak nem huztak ki a
zsinort az MIT-nel a HIXtol?

Pannon J.

---------------------------------
this looks very interesting but you know Iran is very very off limits at 
this time, very off limits for us passport holders, don't you think so?

Neue Zürcher Zeitung, 8 März 1996

Ungarns Leistunsbilanz mit geringerem Defizit.

Rekordzufluß an Direktinvestionen

Die am Donnerstag von der ungarischen Nationalbank veröffentlichen
Zahlungsbilanzdaten fur das Jahr 1995 bestätigen die Trendwende,
welche die Volkswirtschaft dank der im März 1995 eingeleiteten
Stabilisierungspolitik vollzogen hat. So ist das Leistungbilanzdeficit
auf 2,48 Mrd. $ gesunken, nachdem es 1994 den rekordwert von 3,91
Mrd. $ erreicht hatte. Dieses Resultat entspricht ziemlich genau der
Zielvorgabe von 2,5 Mrd. $, während für das laufende Jahr eine wei-
tere Reduktion auf unter 2 Mrd. $ vorgesehen ist. Der Hauptgrund für
den Fehlbetrag, aber auch für seinen Abbau ist die Handelsbilanz:
Laut den - aus methodischen Gründen nicht mit der Zollstatistik
identischen - Zahlungsbilanzdaten ist deren Defizit auf 2,44 (i.V.
3,64) Mrd. $ zurückgegangen, da die Exporte nominal um 68% auf
12,81 Mrd. $, die Importe jedoch nur 36% auf 15,25 Mrd. $ zuge-
nommen haben.

Dem kleineren Loch in der Leistungsbilanz steht zudem ein erkleck-
licher Überschluß der Kapitalverkehrsbilanz von 7,01 (3,26) Mrd. $
gegenüber. Dieser ist hauptsächlich darauf zurückzuführen, daß
Ungarn 1995 unter anderem dank einigen kurz vor Jahresende abge-
schloßenen großen Privatisierungsprojekten im Infrastrukturbe-
reich einen Nettozufluß an ausländischen Direktinvestitionen in
der Rekordhöhe von 4,45 (1,15) Mrd. $ verzeichnete. Vor diesem
Hintergrund wuchsen die offiziellen Devisenreserven in Hartwäh-
rungen per Ende Jahr auf 12,01 (6,77) Mrd. $, während die Außen-
schuld zwar brutto auf 31,65 (28,52) Mrd. $ gestiegen, netto aber
auf 16,82 (18,94) Mrd. $ gesunken ist.

In article > George Jalsovszky,
 writes:

>Barataink, tiltakozzunk a templomgyalazasok ellen!

>Az idosebbek talan emlekeznek meg az 1945 utani idoszakra

alairok:
> .... Palfy G. Istvan,....


Barki mehet, vagy csak kommunista
ex-partttikarok ?

Tamas

In article >,
George Jalsovszky > wrote:
| 
|         Barataink, tiltakozzunk a templomgyalazasok ellen!
|         =================================================
| 
| 
| Hitunkben, embersegunkben, magyarsagunkban melyen megbantva, dobbenten es
| fajdalommal eltelve allunk az ujabb templomgyalazas hire elott. 
| 
| Nemzeti unnepunket koveto ejszaka betortek a szatymazi katolikus templomba;
| bezuztak az ablakokat, s az Oltariszentseget, a kegytargyakat, a miseruhakat
| kidobtak az utcara.
| 
| Az elso jelentesek szerint a betorok nem vittek el semmit, tettuket ugymond
| nem haszonszerzesbol kovettek el. Tettukkel uzenni akartak a hivo magyar
| embereknek. Mit? Kik altal vezerelve? Mifele titkos sugalmazok felbujtasara? 
| Templomok, papok, szentsegek ellen, masok hite ellen csakis erzelmi alapon
| szoktak fordulni tudatlan es elvetemult emberek.
| 
| Kerdezzuk a tarsadalom nyilvanossaga elott: mibol taplalkoznak ezek az
| erzelmek, kik szitjak a dabas-sari iskolaban keresztet levero, a szatymazi
| szentsegeket meggyalazo nemtelen indulatokat? Kik? Es miert?
| 
| Az idosebbek talan emlekeznek meg az 1945 utani idoszakra, a "fordulat evet"
| megelozo hasonlo esemenyekre. Emlekeznek  es elborzadnak a lehetseges jovotol
. 
| Mi alulirottak tiltakozunk a szatymazi katolikus kozosseget ert gyalazat
| ellen. Kerjuk kereszteny es keresztyen testvereinket, minden joerzesu
| honfitarsunkat, hogy csatlakozzanak tiltakozasunkhoz!
| 
| A most kovetkezo penteken, marcius 22-en 19 orai kezdettel nema tiltakozast
| hirdetunk a keresztuti ajtatossagot kovetoen Budapesten a Bazilika
| lepcsoinel. Kerjuk, minel tobben csatlakozzanak hozzank! Kerjuk, erositsek
| meg tiltakozasunkat az Uj Magyarorszag szerkesztosegenek bekuldott, a
| templomoknak eljuttatott alairasukkal!
| 
| Erezzek at minel tobben, hogy a szentseggyalazok nemcsak a hituket ovo
| embereket, hanem az egesz kozosseget fenyegetik! Csatlakozzatok nema
| jajkialtasunkhoz, halk imainkhoz!
| 
| Budapest, 1996. marcius 16.
| 
| Alberti Arpad, Balogh Agnes, dr. Boross Ilona, Czine Borbala, Cseve
| Magdolna, Deli Andras, Dippold Pal, Eperjes Karoly, Dr. Hegedus Lorant,
| Hegedus Zsuzsanna, Macskassy Izolda, Palfy G. Istvan, Dr. Sumegh Laszlo,
| Szokolay Sandor, Dr. Weltler Maya, Ferencz Csaba, Homolay Karoly
| George Jalsovszky

EN is szeretnem alairni a tiltkozast, de szeretnem eloszor
az elkuldott tiltakozas szoveget eleolvasni, es annak is
orulnek ha fuggetlen forrasbol hallhatnam hogy mi tortnet.


Istvan

russian:
 Ya lyublyu tebya
--
Maxim A. Abakumov
Moscow State University
Department of Geography
e-mail: 

 wrote:
> 
> Laszlo Horvath  > wrote:
> >
> >countryside (on a tanya) of Szabolcs (Nyirseg) I used to hear "gazda"
> >used in its primary sense "paraszt". But in that sense it was applied, in
> >the first place, to the well-t-do, respaectable farmers. By the way, in
> 
> Indeed, in one of the meanings the word implies something the
> communists came to call "kulak"; a prosperous farmer.
> 
> >Serbo croation usage "gazda" means "boss, foreman".
> 
> Maybe because they tended to be the employees of such farmers.
> 
> > Since the word is
> >present in Slovakian and Serbo-Croation, we could conjecture that indeed
> >it is "magyar" and was borrowed by the "two neighbors". The third person
> 
> After hearing many derogatory insults on the Slovak list about the
> supposed nomad, barbaric ancestors of ours who learned agriculture
> from their ancestors, I found it tempting to "rub it in" to them that
> how come they had to borrow such a word from those nomadic Hungarians
> instead of the other way around?
> 
> >past-tense for "safarkodni" should be "safarkodott" instead of "rosszul
> >safirkodott". Yes, it sounds pretty old fashioned today. Although, just
> 
> That was an obvious typo on my part.
> 
> >before I left home, it was beginning to acquire a new and
> >derogative connotation, similar to "kupeckedik" (as if ugyeskedik,
> >seftenkedik, kereskedik, add-vesz, kupeckedik, were rolled into one word)
> 
> Hm, that's interesting.
> 
> Thanks for the comments,
> Joe Pannon

Joe,
A couple of days ago a Polish publication with the title "Warszawski 
informator gospodarczy:" (Warsaw economic report) got into my hand and 
made me to reflect that after all I might be wrong about assuming that 
the word gazda is of magyar origin. I turned to a Polish and Russian 
dictionary and found the following: in Polish gospodarka means economy, 
gospodarowac means to run a farm, and gospodarz means farmer. In Russian 
gospodin means lord, master, gospod means lord. It does seem that after 
all we, Hungarians, borrowed "gazda" and its derivatives from a Slavic 
language. 
Sincerely, Laszlo Horvath

Previously on Usenet,  (Nadeem Siddiqi) wrote:

[Re polygamy]

>Dr Sherif Abdel Azeem > has continued working
>on the subject and has now published a book with the same name. The
>book follows the spirit of the initial article, and expands on it,
>including many more detailed examples of what is being said. It is
>filled with interesting [referenced] quotes such as:
>
>    Billy Graham, the eminent Christian evangelist has recognized this
>  fact:  "Christianity cannot compromise on the question of polygamy.

Is this perhaps the end of the quote from Billy Graham?  It seems
diametrically opposed to the next sentence.  Above, he says there can be
no compromise, then the following sentence says that it is to
Christianity's detriment NOT to permit polygamy.  Something is out of
whack; what follows is also inconsistent with Mr. Graham's preaching
over the past 50 years, as well as his normal writing style.  BTW, where
is the quote from?

>  If present-day Christianity cannot do so, it is to its own detriment.
>  Islam has permitted polygamy as a solution to social ills and has
>  allowed a certain degree of latitude to human nature but only within
>  the strictly defined framework of the law. Christian countries make a
>  great show of monogamy, but actually they practise polygamy. No one is
>  unaware of the part mistresses play in Western society. In this respect
>  Islam is a fundamentally honest religion, and permits a Muslim to marry
>  a second wife if he must, but strictly forbids all clandestine amatory
>  associations in order to safeguard the moral probity of the community."

[balance snipped]
---
Don Kirkman               
"I know of no rights of race superior to the rights of man"
                                  Frederick Douglass

Jozsi's hix.mit.edu machine is experiencing some technical difficulties; 
he is aware of the problem and is trying to fix it ASAP. 

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the 
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!

Barataink, tiltakozzunk a templomgyalazasok ellen!
        =================================================


Hitunkben, embersegunkben, magyarsagunkban melyen megbantva, dobbenten es
fajdalommal eltelve allunk az ujabb templomgyalazas hire elott. 

Nemzeti unnepunket koveto ejszaka betortek a szatymazi katolikus templomba;
bezuztak az ablakokat, s az Oltariszentseget, a kegytargyakat, a miseruhakat
kidobtak az utcara.

Az elso jelentesek szerint a betorok nem vittek el semmit, tettuket ugymond
nem haszonszerzesbol kovettek el. Tettukkel uzenni akartak a hivo magyar
embereknek. Mit? Kik altal vezerelve? Mifele titkos sugalmazok felbujtasara? 
Templomok, papok, szentsegek ellen, masok hite ellen csakis erzelmi alapon
szoktak fordulni tudatlan es elvetemult emberek.

Kerdezzuk a tarsadalom nyilvanossaga elott: mibol taplalkoznak ezek az
erzelmek, kik szitjak a dabas-sari iskolaban keresztet levero, a szatymazi
szentsegeket meggyalazo nemtelen indulatokat? Kik? Es miert?

Az idosebbek talan emlekeznek meg az 1945 utani idoszakra, a "fordulat evet"
megelozo hasonlo esemenyekre. Emlekeznek  es elborzadnak a lehetseges jovotol. 
Mi alulirottak tiltakozunk a szatymazi katolikus kozosseget ert gyalazat
ellen. Kerjuk kereszteny es keresztyen testvereinket, minden joerzesu
honfitarsunkat, hogy csatlakozzanak tiltakozasunkhoz!

A most kovetkezo penteken, marcius 22-en 19 orai kezdettel nema tiltakozast
hirdetunk a keresztuti ajtatossagot kovetoen Budapesten a Bazilika
lepcsoinel. Kerjuk, minel tobben csatlakozzanak hozzank! Kerjuk, erositsek
meg tiltakozasunkat az Uj Magyarorszag szerkesztosegenek bekuldott, a
templomoknak eljuttatott alairasukkal!

Erezzek at minel tobben, hogy a szentseggyalazok nemcsak a hituket ovo
embereket, hanem az egesz kozosseget fenyegetik! Csatlakozzatok nema
jajkialtasunkhoz, halk imainkhoz!

Budapest, 1996. marcius 16.

Alberti Arpad, Balogh Agnes, dr. Boross Ilona, Czine Borbala, Cseve
Magdolna, Deli Andras, Dippold Pal, Eperjes Karoly, Dr. Hegedus Lorant,
Hegedus Zsuzsanna, Macskassy Izolda, Palfy G. Istvan, Dr. Sumegh Laszlo,
Szokolay Sandor, Dr. Weltler Maya, Ferencz Csaba, Homolay Karoly
George Jalsovszky
> ============================================================================
Central Research Institute for Chemistry, Hungarian Academy of Sciences
H-1525 Budapest, P.O.Box 17, Hungary. Phone:+361-212-2900; Fax:+361-212-5020
http://www.osp.chemres.hu/jalso/~jalso_h.htm
> ============================================================================

__HELYREIGAZITAS__

A valamelyik elozo levelemben Kongorol allitottak hamisnak
bizonyultak. Ezt jomagam is belatom, ezert a thread es a ng valamennyi
olvasojatol elnezest kerek.
Fenntartom azonban, hogy nem hiszem, hogy a kulonbozo nepek
szenvedeseit rangsorolni vagy egyaltalan megmerni lehet.
Kaszi

Demszky Gabor, a tetvek embere ismet megmutatta, hogy melto nevere.
Marcius 15-e kapcsan a VOA-nak adott interjuja minden eddigi altalam
ismert produkciojat alulmulja. Gratulalok!

 wrote:

>Revolution Days in Budapest, Hungary

Nem idezek, mert allati hosszu es semmi ertelme.
>Western world should have been forewarned before revolution broke

(...)

>Mr. Horn, Freedom House and Amnesty International]

Nem tudom, honnan szedtem ossze, de csak ezt tudom valaszolni:
"Without fools there would be no wisdom!"



Kaszas Peter

Please, don't flame! I'm just another idiot.