Goober BarfSaid:  
|hogy egy tehetsegtelen barom, mint ahogy felesege is az.  

Oh Mr Bland Gland, as in "not stimulating" (Oxford Dict.), it is true
that my husband and myself share many qualities: animal passions rather
than soap opera blandness, among other things. In this regard we hold each
other in idolatry. But since we are poets (bards) we hold each other in
bardolatry. Oh well bardon me, it is time for some brandy with my
bardolatlan. Oh the animal magnetism! The BAROMeter of the man indicates
heavy humidity! The brute strength! The power. The Poetency!!!! It's been
many months since I posted -- I don't respond to mediocrity and blandness. 
Since we cannot expect otherwise from you, you will not be getting any
further response from me, which means, of course, the last shots,
(dribbles in your case, aka, goobers) are yours.

Check it out - a completely FREE! on-line service for the
international community - dating, friendship, marriage.

At: http://www.netdata-intl.com/hearts

Or if you don't have a web browser, get a free registration
form by sending e-mail to "" with
the keyword "info" in the subject of the mail.

In article >
 (Michael E Willett) writes:
 
>What is the reason that ABM Amro is buying Hungary's
>fifth biggest bank?
 
To have a foot in the door in Hungary.
Eastern European economies will start to grow the next few years.
 
R.A.Kunne

This is another post in the series along the theme that:  " Corrupt elites 
prosper at the people's expense with the aid of the IMF,  World Bank and 'shock
 
therapy' policies of Western advisors under the guise of free-trade or 
democratic or market-reforms." 

In his article, "Communique of American-Ukrainian Advisory Committee," 
in the Dec-10-1995 issue of The Ukrainian Weekly, Eugene M. Iwanciw wrote:

"The American-Ukrainian Advisory Committee met in New York on November 17-18 
and reiterated its strong conviction that a resilient Ukraine is in the 
interest of European stability and thus also American security. It welcomed the
 
evident improvement in the American-Ukrainian relationship, especially the 
recognition by the U.S. government of Ukraine's geopolitical significance. It 
also endorsed strongly the reform efforts being pursued by the Ukrainian 
government in order to transform Ukraine into a stable democracy based on a 
free market economy."

The American participants of the American-Ukrainian Advisory Committee (AUAC) 
sponsored by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS)  
included:

Zbigniew Brzezinski (CSIS counselor), 
Richard Burt (chairman, International Equity Partners), 
Frank Carlucci (chairman, Carlyle Group), 
Gen. John Galvin (dean, Fletcher School of International Law and Diplomacy), 
Michael Jordan (chairman and CEO, Westinghouse Electric Corp), 
Henry Kissinger (chairman, Kissinger Associates) and 
George Soros (chairman, Soros Foundations).

Previous American advisers of AUAC included Malcolm Steve Forbes, Jr. 
(editor-in-chief, Forbes magazine), whose magazine gained some notoriety 
recently for publishing the  "Tinderbox" article by Paul Klebnikov, and Dwayne 
Orville Andreas (chairman and CEO, Archer Daniels Midland Co.), whose company  
pleaded guilty last month for anti-trust and price-fixing violations and agreed
 
to pay a $100 million fine---the largest fine of its kind ever.

Also in a previous post it was  indicated that at least six of the current 
seven American members of AUAC are also members of the Council of Foreign 
Relations (CFR), including George Soros. 

Previous posts included excerpts on Soros from the 23-page article titled, "The
 
world according to Soros" written by Connie Bruck in the Jan. 23, 1995 issue of
 
The New Yorker. It has also been reported that Soros has contributed $15 
million to groups advocating an array of alternatives to the Cinton 
administration's "War on Drugs,"  including  a personal donation of $350,000 to
 
fund a "medical marijuana" ballot  initiative in California and a personal 
donation of $100,000  for a similar ballot initiative in Arizona. The following
 
Nov. 1, 1996 article by the Executive Intelligence Review (EIR) provides 
additional background information on George Soros, one of the American members 
of AUAC.

Stefan Lemieszewski
____________________________________________________________

The Secret Financial Network Behind  "Wizard"  George Soros

by William Engdahl

EIR Investigation
Executive Intelligence Review (EIR), November 1, 1996

The dossier that follows is based upon a report released on Oct. 1 by EIR's 
bureau in Wiesbaden, Germany, titled "A Profile of Mega-Speculator George 
Soros."  Research was contributed by Mark Burdman, Elisabeth Hellenbroich, 
Paolo Raimondi, and Scott Thompson.

...............................................................................
.
.........................................................

Time magazine has characterized financier George Soros as a "modern-day Robin 
Hood," who robs from the rich to give to the poor countries of eastern Europe 
and Russia. It claimed that Soros makes huge financial gains by speculating 
against western central banks, in order to use his profits to help the emerging
 
post-communist economies of eastern Europe and former Soviet Union, to assist 
them to create what he calls an "Open Society." The Time statement is entirely 
accurate in the first part, and entirely inaccurate in the second. He robs from
 
rich western countries, and uses his profits to rob even more savagely from the
 
East, under the cloak of "philanthropy." His goal is to loot wherever and 
however he can. Soros has been called the master manipulator of "hit-and-run 
capitalism."

As we shall see, what Soros means by "open," is a society that allows him and 
his financial predator friends to loot the resources and precious assets of 
former Warsaw Pact economies. By bringing people like Jeffrey Sachs or Sweden's
 
Anders Aslund and their economic shock therapy into these economies, Soros lays
 
the groundwork for buying up the assets of whole regions of the world at 
dirt-cheap prices.

The man who broke the Bank of England?

An examination of Soros's secretive financial network is vital to understand 
the true dimension of the "Soros problem" in eastern Europe and other nations.

Following the crisis of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism of September 1992,
 
when the Bank of England was forced to abandon efforts to stabilize the pound 
sterling, a little-known financial figure emerged from the shadows, to boast 
that he had personally made over $1 billion in speculation against the British 
pound. The speculator was the Hungarian-born George Soros, who spent the war in
 
Hungary under false papers working for the Nazi government, identifying and 
expropriating the property of wealthy fellow Jews. Soros left Hungary after the
 
war, and established American citizenship after some years in London. Today, 
Soros is based in New York, but that tells little, if anything, of who and what
 
he is.

Following his impressive claims to possession of a "Midas touch," Soros has let
 
his name be publicly used in a blatant attempt to influence world financial 
markets---an out-of-character act for most financial investors, who prefer to 
take advantage of situations not yet discovered by rivals, and keep them 
secret. Soros the financier is as much a political animal, as a financial 
speculator.

Soros proclaimed in March 1993, with great publicity, that the price of gold 
was about to rise sharply; he said that he had just gotten "inside information"
 
that China was about to buy huge sums of gold for its booming economy. Soros 
was able to trigger a rush into buying gold, which caused prices to rise more 
than 20% over four months, to the highest level since 1991. Typically for 
Soros, once the fools rushed in to push prices higher, Soros and his friend Sir
 
James Goldsmith secretly began selling their gold at a huge profit.

Then, in early June 1993, Soros proclaimed his intent to force a sell-off in 
German government bonds in favor of the French, in an open letter to London 
Times Financial Editor Anatole Kaletsky, in which Soros proclaimed, "Down with 
the D-Mark!"  Soros has at various times attacked the currencies of Thailand, 
Malaysia, Indonesia, and Mexico, coming into newly opened financial markets 
which have little experience with foreign investors, let alone ones with large 
funds like Soros. Soros begins buying stocks or bonds in the local market, 
leading others to naively suppose that he knows something they do not. As with 
gold, when the smaller investors begin to follow Soros, driving prices of 
stocks or whatever higher, Soros begins to sell to the eager new buyers, 
cashing in his 40% or 100% profits, then exiting the market, and often, the 
entire country, to seek another target for his speculation. This technique gave
 
rise to the term "hit and run."  What Soros always leaves behind, is a 
collapsed local market and financial ruin of national investors.

The secret of the Quantum Fund NV

Soros is the visible side of a vast and nasty secret network of private 
financial interests, controlled by the leading aristocratic and royal families 
of Europe, centered in the British House of Windsor. This network, called by 
its members the Club of Isles, was built upon the wreckage of the British 
Empire after World War II.

Rather than use the powers of the state to achieve their geopolitical goals, a 
secret cross-linked holding of private financial interests, tied to the old 
aristocratic oligarchy of western Europe, was developed. It was in many ways 
modeled on the 17th-century British and Dutch East India Companies. The heart 
of this Club of the Isles is the financial center of the old British Empire, 
the City of London. Soros is one of what in medieval days were called Hofjuden,
 
the "Court Jews,"  who were deployed by the aristocratic families.

The most important of such "Jews who are not Jews," are the Rothschilds, who 
launched Soros's career. They are members of the Club of the Isles and 
retainers of the British royal family. This has been true since Amschel 
Rothschild sold the British Hessian troops to fight against George Washington 
during the American Revolution.

Soros is American only in his passport. He is a global financial operator, who 
happens to be in New York, simply because "that's where the money is," as the 
bank robber Willy Sutton once quipped, when asked why he always robbed banks. 
Soros speculates in world financial markets through his offshore company, 
Quantum Fund NV, a private investment fund, or "hedge fund." His hedge fund 
reportedly manages some $11-14 billion of funds on behalf of its clients, or 
investors---one of the most prominent of whom is, according to Soros, Britain's
 
Queen Elizabeth, the wealthiest person in Europe.

The Quantum Fund is registered in the tax haven of the Netherlands Antilles, in
 
the Caribbean. This is to avoid paying taxes, as well as to hide the true 
nature of his investors and what he does with their money.

In order to avoid U.S. government supervision of his financial activities, 
something normal U.S.-based investment funds must by law agree to in order to 
operate, Soros moved his legal headquarters to the Caribbean tax haven of 
Curacao. The Netherlands Antilles has repeatedly been cited by the Task Force 
on Money Laundering of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and 
Development (OECD) as one of the world's most important centers for laundering 
illegal proceeds of the Latin American cocaine and other drug traffic. It is a 
possession of the Netherlands.

Soros has taken care that the none of the 99 individual investors who 
participate in his various funds is an American national. By U.S. securities 
law, a hedge fund is limited to no more than 99 highly wealthy individuals, 
so-called "sophisticated investors."  By structuring his investment company as 
an offshore hedge fund, Soros avoids public scrutiny.

Soros himself is not even on the board of Quantum Fund. Instead, for legal 
reasons, he serves the Quantum Fund as official "investment adviser," through 
another company, Soros Fund Management, of New York City. If any demand were to
 
be made of Soros to reveal the details of Quantum Fund's operations, he is able
 
to claim he is "merely its investment adviser." Any competent police 
investigator looking at the complex legal structure of Soros's businesses would
 
conclude that there is prima facie evidence of either vast money laundering of 
illicit funds, or massive illegal tax evasion. Both may be true.

To make it impossible for U.S. tax authorities or other officials to look into 
the financial dealings of his web of businesses, the board of directors of 
Quantum Fund NV also includes no American citizens. His directors are Swiss, 
Italian, and British financiers.

George Soros is part of a tightly knit financial mafia---"mafia," in the sense 
of a closed masonic-like fraternity of families pursuing common aims. Anyone 
who dares to criticize Soros or any of his associates, is immediately hit with 
the charge of being  "anti-Semitic"----a criticism which often silences or 
intimidates genuine critics of Soros's unscrupulous operations. The 
Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith considers it a top priority to "protect"
 
Soros from the charges of "anti-Semites" in Hungary and elsewhere in Central 
Europe, according to ADL National Director Abraham Foxman. The ADL's record of 
service to the British oligarchy has been amply documented by EIR (e.g. The 
Ugly Truth About the Anti-Defamation League [Washington, D.C., Executive 
Intelligence Review: 1992]).

According to knowledgeable U.S. and European investigators, Soros's circle 
includes indicted metals and commodity speculator and fugitive Marc Rich of 
Zug, Switzerland and Tel Aviv; secretive Israeli arms and commodity dealer 
Shaul Eisenberg, and "Dirty Rafi" Eytan, both linked to the financial side of 
the Israeli Mossad; and, the family of Jacob Lord Rothschild.

Understandably, Soros and the Rothschild interests prefer to keep their 
connection hidden far from public view, so as to obscure the well-connected 
friends Soros enjoys in the City of London, the British Foreign Office, Israel,
 
and the U.S. financial establishment. The myth, therefore, has been created, 
that Soros is a lone financial investment "genius" who, through his sheer 
personal brilliance in detecting shifts in markets, has become one of the 
world's most successful speculators. According to those who have done business 
with him, Soros never makes a major investment move without sensitive insider 
information.

On the board of directors of Soros's Quantum Fund N.V. is Richard Katz, a 
Rothschild man who is also on the board of the London N.M. Rothschild and Sons 
 merchant bank, and the head of Rothschild Italia S.p.A. of Milan. Another 
Rothschild family link to Soros's Quantum Fund is Quantum board member Nils O. 
Taube, the partner of the London investment group St. James Place Capital, 
whose major partner is Lord Rothschild. London Times columnist Lord William 
Rees-Mogg is also on the board of Rothschild's St. James Place Capital.

A frequent business partner of Soros in various speculative deals, including in
 
the 1993 gold manipulation, although not on the Quantum Fund directly, is the 
Anglo-French speculator Sir James Goldsmith, a cousin of the Rothschild family.

From the very first days when Soros created his own investment fund in 1969, he
 
owed his success to his relation to the Rothschild family banking network. 
Soros worked in New York in the 1960s for a small private bank close to the 
Rothschilds, Arnhold & S. Bleichroeder, Inc., a banking family which 
represented Rothschild interests in Germany during Bismarck's time. To this 
day, A. & S. Bleichroeder, Inc. remains the Principal Custodian, along with 
Citibank, of funds of Soros's Quantum Fund. George C. Karlweiss, of Edmond de 
Rothschild's Switzerland-based Banque Privee SA in Lugano, as well as of the 
scandal-tainted Rothschild Bank AG of Zurich, gave Soros financial backing. 
Karlweiss provided some of the vital initial capital and investors for Soros's 
Quantum Fund.

Union Banque Privee and the 'Swiss connection'

Another member of the board of Soros's Quantum Fund is the head of one of the 
most controversial Swiss private banks, Edgar de Picciotto, who has been called
 
"one of the cleverest bankers in Geneva"---and is one of the most 
scandal-tainted. De Picciotto, from an old Portuguese Jewish trading family, 
who was born in Lebanon, is head of the Geneva private bank CBI-TDB Union 
Bancaire Privee, a major player in the gold and offshore hedge funds business. 
Hedge funds have been identified by international police agencies as the 
fastest-growing outlet for illegal money laundering today.

De Picciotto is a longtime friend and business associate of banker Edmond 
Safra, also born in Lebanon, whose family came from Aleppo, Syria, and who now 
controls the Republic Bank of New York. Republic Bank has been identified in 
U.S. investigations into Russian organized crime, as the bank involved in 
transferring billions of U.S. Federal Reserve notes from New York to organized 
 crime-controlled Moscow banks, on behalf of Russian organized crime figures. 
Safra is under investigation by U.S. and Swiss authorities for laundering 
Turkish and Columbian drug money. In 1990, Safra's Trade Development Bank (TDB)
 
of Geneva was merged with de Picciotto's CBI to create the CBI-TDB Union Banque
 
Privee. The details of the merger are shrouded in secrecy to this day. As part 
of the deal, de Picciotto became a board member of American Express Bank 
(Switzerland) SA of Geneva, and two American Express Bank of New York 
executives sit on the board of de Picciotto's Union Banque Privee. Safra had 
sold his Trade Development Bank to American Express, Inc. in the 1980s. Henry 
Kissinger sits on the board of American Express, Inc., which has repeatedly 
been implicated in international money-laundering scandals.

De Picciotto's start as a Geneva banker came from Nicholas Baring of the London
 
Barings Bank, who tapped de Picciotto to run the bank's secret Swiss bank 
business. Barings has for centuries been private banker to the British royal 
family, and since the bank's collapse in March 1995, has been overhauled by the
 
Dutch ING Bank, which is reported to be a major money-laundering institution.

De Picciotto is also a longtime business partner of Venetian businessman Carlo 
De Benedetti, who recently was forced to resign as head of Olivetti Corp. Both 
persons sit on the board of the Societe Financiere de Geneve investment holding
 
company in Geneva. De Benedetti is under investigation in Italy for suspicion 
of triggering the collapse of Italy's Banco Ambrosiano in the early 1980s.The 
head of that bank, Roberto Calvi, was later found hanging from the London 
Blackfriar's Bridge, in what police believe was a masonic ritual murder.

De Picciotto and his Union Banque Privee have been implicated in numerous drug 
and illegal money-laundering operations. In November 1994, U.S. federal agents 
arrested a senior official of de Picciotto's Geneva bank, Jean-Jacques Handali,
 
along with two other UBP officials, on charges of leading a multimillion-dollar
 
drug-money-laundering ring. According to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Miami, 
Handali and Union Banque Privee were the "Swiss connection" in an international
 
drug-money-laundering ring tied to Colombian and Turkish cocaine and heroin 
organizations. A close business and political associate of de Picciotto is a 
mysterious arm dealer, Helmut Raiser, who is linked in business dealings with 
reputed Russian organized crime kingpin Grigori Luchansky, who controls the 
Russian and Swiss holding company Nordex Group.

Another director of Soros's Quantum Fund is Isodoro Albertini, owner of the 
Milan stock brokerage firm Albertini and Co.   Beat Notz of the Geneva Banque 
Worms is another private banker on the board of Soros's Quantum Fund, as is 
Alberto Foglia, who is chief of the Lugano, Switzerland Banca del Ceresio. 
Lugano, just across the Swiss border from Milan, is notorious as the financial 
secret bank haven for Italian organized crime families, including the heroin 
mafia behind the 1980s "Pizza Connection"  case. The Banca del Ceresio has been
 
one of the secret Swiss banks identified in the recent Italian political 
corruption scandals as the repository of bribe funds of several Italian 
politicians now in prison.

The sponsorship of the Rothschilds

Soros's relation to the Rothschild finance circle represents no ordinary or 
casual banking connection. It goes a long way to explain the extraordinary 
success of a mere private speculator, and Soros's uncanny ability to "gamble 
right" so many times in such high-risk markets. Soros has access to the 
"insider track" in some of the most important government and private channels 
in the world.

Since World War II, the Rothschild family, at the heart of the financial 
apparatus of the Club of the Isles, has gone to great lengths to create a 
public myth about its own insignificance. The family has spent significant sums
 
cultivating a public image as a family of wealthy, but quiet, "gentlemen," some
 
of whom prefer to cultivate fine French wines, some of whom are devoted to 
charity.

Since British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour wrote his famous November 1917 
letter to Lord Rothschild, expressing official British government backing for 
establishment of a Palestinian national home for the Jewish people, the 
Rothschilds were intimately involved in the creation of Israel. But behind 
their public facade of a family donating money for projects such as planting 
trees in the deserts of Israel, N.M. Rothschild of London is at the center of 
various intelligence operations, and more than once has been linked to the more
 
unsavory elements of international organized crime. The family prefers to keep 
such links at arm's length, and away from its London headquarters, via its 
lesser-known outposts such as their Zurich Rothschild Bank AG and Rothschild 
Italia of Milan, the bank of Soros partner Richard Katz.

N.M. Rothschild is considered by City of London sources to be one of the most 
influential parts of the British intelligence establishment, tied to the 
Thatcher "free market" wing of the Tory Party. Rothschild and Sons made huge 
sums managing for Thatcher the privatization of billions of dollars of British 
state industry holdings during the 1980s, and today, for John Major's 
government. Rothschilds is also at the very heart of the world gold trade, 
being the bank at which twice daily the London Gold Fix is struck by a group of
 
the five most influential gold trade banks. Gold constitutes a major part of 
the economy of drug dealings globally.

N.M. Rothschild and Sons is also implicated in some of the filthiest 
drugs-for-weapons secret intelligence operations. Because it is connected to 
the highest levels of the British intelligence establishment, Rothschilds 
managed to evade any prominent mention of its complicity in one of the more 
sordid black covert intelligence networks, that of the Bank of Credit and 
Commerce International (BCCI). Rothschilds was at the center of the 
international web of money-laundering banks used during the 1970s and 1980s by 
Britain's MI-6 and the networks of Col. Oliver North and George Bush, to 
finance such projects as the Nicaraguan Contras.

On June 8, 1993 the chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives' Committee on
 
Banking, Rep. Henry Gonzalez (D-Tex.), made a speech charging that the U.S. 
government, under the previous Bush and Reagan administrations, had 
systematically refused to prosecute the BCCI, and that the Department of 
Justice had repeatedly refused to cooperate with Congressional investigations 
of both the BCCI scandal and what Gonzalez claims is the closely related 
scandal of the Atlanta, Georgia Banca Nationale del Lavoro, which was alleged 
to have secured billions in loans from the Bush administration to Saddam 
Hussein, just prior to the Gulf War of 1990-91.

Gonzalez charged that the Bush administration had "a Justice Department that I 
say, and I repeat, has been the most corrupt, most unbelievably corrupt justice
 
system that I have seen in the 32 years I have been in the Congress."

The BCCI violated countless laws, including laundering drug money, financing 
illegal arms traffic, and falsifying bank records. In July 1991, New York 
District Attorney Robert Morgenthau announced a grand jury indictment against  
BCCI, charging it with having committed "the largest bank fraud in world 
financial history. BCCI operated as a corrupt criminal organization throughout 
its entire 19-year history."

The BCCI had links directly into the Bush White House. Saudi Sheik Kamal Adham,
 
a BCCI director and former head of Saudi Arabian intelligence when George Bush 
was head of the CIA, was one of the BCCI shareholders indicted in the United 
States. Days after his indictment, former top Bush White House aide Edward 
Rogers went to Saudi Arabia as a private citizen to sign a contract to 
represent Sheikh Adham in the United States.

--- continued in part  2 ---

Alex Seredin wrote:

> Short, accurate and to the point. What can I say, except I love it!
>
 Alex Ottawa Canada

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
---

I thought you were bothered by death threats.  Some 27 you said.  Then
stop requesting what you want inscripted on your tombstone.

Turicanac

What is the reason that ABM Amro is buying Hungary's
fifth biggest bank?

M Willett
Storage Computer
http://www.storage.com/worldwide.html

A few days ago one guy posted a two part article on Soros, ending with
some quotes from his book "Soros on Soros":

"Let me try to carry the concept of an open society to its logical conclusions 
and describe what a perfectly changeable society would look like. Alternatives 
would be available in all aspects of existence: in personal relations, opinions
 
and ideas, productive processes and materials, social and economic 
organization, and so on. In these circumstances, the individual would occupy a 
paramount position. Members of an organic society possess no independence at 
all; in a less than perfectly changeable society, established values and 
relationships still circumscribe people's behaviour; but in a perfectly open 
society none of the existing ties are final, and people's relation to nation, 
family, and their fellows depends entirely on their own decisions. Looking at 
the reverse side of the coin, this means that the permanence of social 
relationships has disappeared; the organic structure of society has 
disintegrated to the point where its atoms, the individuals, float around 
without any roots.

How the individual chooses among the alternatives available to him or her is 
the subject mater of economics. Economic analysis therefore provides a 
convenient starting point. All that is necessary is to extend it. In a world in
 
which every action is a matter of choice, economic behaviour characterizes all 
fields of activity. That does not necessarily mean that people pay more 
attention  to the possession of goods than to spiritual, artistic, or moral 
values, but merely that all values can be reduced to monetary terms. This 
renders the principles of the market mechanism relevant to such far-ranging 
areas as art, politics, social life, sex, and religion. Not everything that has
 
value is subject to buying and selling, because there are some values that are 
purely personal and therefore cannot be exchanged (e.g., maternal love), others
 
that lose their value in the process of exchange (e.g., reputation), and still 
others that it would be physically impossible or illegal to trade (e.g., the 
weather or political appointments). Still, in a perfectly changeable society 
the scope of the market mechanism would be extended to its utmost limit. Even 
where the operation of market forces is regulated by legislation, legislation 
itself would be the result of a process of haggling akin to economic behaviour.

Choices arise that would not even have been imagined in an earlier age. 
Euthanasia, genetic engineering, and brainwashing become practical 
possibilities. The most complex human functions, such as thinking, may be 
broken down into their elements and artificially reproduced. Everything appears
 
possible until it has been proved impossible.

Perhaps the most striking characteristic of a perfectly changeable society is 
the decline in personal relationships. What makes a relationship personal is 
that it is tied to a specific person. Friends, neighbors, husbands and wives 
would become, if not interchangeable, at least readily replaceable by only 
marginally inferior (or superior) substitutes; they would be subject to choice 
under competitive conditions. Parents and children would presumably remain 
fixed, but the ties that connect them may become less influential. Personal 
contact may altogether decline in importance as more efficient means of 
communication reduce the need for physical presence."


Does anybody know if this was a literal quoting from Soros' book, or the
poster's paraphrasing it?  Somebody might have the book handy.
If this is really how Soros feels, I think he shot himself in the foot
by spelling it out so black-and-white.

Joe Pannon

Levelezo partnereket keres egy 31 eves fiatalember.

In article >,
Ronald Kunne > wrote:
>In article >
 (Michael E Willett) writes:
> 
>>What is the reason that ABM Amro is buying Hungary's
>>fifth biggest bank?
> 
>To have a foot in the door in Hungary.
>Eastern European economies will start to grow the next few years.

Sorry! I have to disappoint you. Banks don't have feet.

Jeaan
-- 
               ---------- Free Aleksandr Nikitin! -------------
`\------,(__)  wrongfully charged with treason for reporting on   __o 
* |      (oo)  deteriorating nuclear submarines around Murmansk _`\<,_ 
* ||w--||(..)~*  http://www.grida.no/ngo/bellona/nikitin.htm   (_)/ (_)

--- continued from part 1 ---

But, what has never been identified in a single major Western press 
investigation, was that the Rothschild group was at the heart of the vast 
illegal web of BCCI. The key figure was Dr. Alfred Hartmann, the managing 
director of the BCCI Swiss subsidiary, Banque de Commerce et de Placement SA; 
at the same time, he ran the Zurich Rothschild Bank AG, and sat in London as a 
member of the board of N.M. Rothschild and Sons, Hartmann was also a business 
partner of Helmut Raiser, friend of de Picciotto, and linked to Nordex.

Hartmann was also chairman of the Swiss  affiliate of the Italian BNL bank, 
which was implicated in the Bush administration illegal transfers to Iraq prior
 
to the 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. The Atlanta branch of BNL, with the 
knowledge of George Bush when he was vice president, conduited funds to Helmut 
Raiser's Zug, Switzerland company, Consen, for development of the CondorII 
missile program by Iraq, Egypt, and Argentina, during the Iran-Iraq War. 
Hartmann was vice-chairman of another secretive private Geneva bank, the Bank 
of NY-Inter-Maritime Bank, a bank whose chairman, Bruce Rappaport, was one of 
the illegal financial conduits for Col. Oliver North's Contra drugs-for-weapons
 
network during the late 1980. North also used the BCCI as one of his preferred 
banks to hide his illegal funds.


Rich, Reichmann, and Soros's Israeli links

According to reports of former U.S. State Department intelligence officers 
familiar with the Soros case, Soros's Quantum Fund amassed a war chest of well 
over $10 billion, with the help of a powerful group of "silent" investors who 
let Soros deploy the capital to demolish European monetary stability in 
September 1992.

Among Soros's silent investors, these sources say, are the fugitive metals and 
oil trader Marc Rich, based in Zug, Switzerland; and Shaul Eisenberg, a 
decades-long member of Israeli Mossad intelligence, who functions as a major 
arms merchant throughout Asia and the Near East. Eisenberg was recently banned 
from doing business in Uzbekistan, where he had been accused by the government 
of massive fraud and corruption. A third Soros partner is Israel's "Dirty Rafi"
 
Eytan, who served in London previously as Mossad liaison to British 
intelligence.

Rich was one of the most active western traders in oil, aluminum, and other 
commodities in the Soviet Union and Russia between 1989 and 1993. This, not 
coincidentally, is just the period when Grigori Luchansky's Nordex Group became
 
a multibillion-dollar company selling Russian oil, aluminum, and other 
commodities.

Canadian real estate entrepreneur Paul Reichmann, formerly of Olympia and York 
notoriety, a Hungarian-born Jew like Soros, is a business partner in Soros's 
Quantum Realty, a $525-million real estate investment fund.

The Reichmann tie links Soros as well with Henry Kissinger and former Tory 
Foreign Minister Lord Carrington (who is also a member of Kissinger Associates,
 
Inc. of New York). Reichmann sits with both Kissinger and Carrington on the 
board  of the influential British-Canadian publishing group, Hollinger, Inc.  
Hollinger owns a large number of newspapers in Canada and the United States, 
the London Daily Telegraph, and the largest English-language daily in Israel, 
the Jerusalem Post.  Hollinger has been attacking President Clinton and the 
Middle East peace process ever since Clinton's election in November 1992.

Soros and geopolitics

Soros is little more than one of several significant vehicles for economic and 
financial warfare by the Club of the Isles faction. Because his affiliations to
 
these interests have not previously been spotlighted, he serves extremely 
useful functions for the oligarchy, as in 1992 and 1993, when he launched his 
attack on the European Rate Mechanism.

Although Soros's speculation played a role in finally taking the British pound 
out of the ERM currency group entirely, it would be a mistake to view that 
action as "anti-British."  Soros went for the first time to London, where he 
studied under Karl Popper and Friedrich von Hayek at the London School of 
Economics.

Soros's business ties to Sir James Goldsmith and Lord Rothschild place him in 
the inner circles of the Thatcher wing of the British establishment. By helping
 
the "anti-Europe" Thatcherites pull Britain out of the ERM in September 1992 
(and making more than $1 billion in the process at British taxpayer expense), 
Soros helped the long-term goal of the  Thatcherites in weakening continental 
Europe's economic stability. Since 1904 , it has been British geopolitical 
strategy to prevent by all means any successful economic linkage between 
western continental European economies, especially that of Germany, with Russia
 
and the countries of eastern Europe.

Soros's personal outlook is consonant with that of the Thatcher wing of the 
Tory Party, those who three years ago launched the "Germany, the Fourth Reich" 
hate campaign against unified Germany, comparing Chancellor Helmut Kohl with 
Adolf Hitler. Soros is personally extremely anti-German. In his 191 
autobiography, Underwriting Democracy, Soros warned that a reunited Germany 
would "upset the balance of Europe .... It is easy to see how the interwar 
scenario could be replayed. A united Germany becomes the strongest economic 
power and develops Eastern Europe as its Lebensraum ... a potent witches' 
brew."  Soros's recent public attacks on the German economy and the deutsche 
mark are fundamentally motivated by this geopolitical view.

Soros is quite close to the circles of George Bush in the U.S. intelligence 
community and finance. His principal bank custodian, and reputed major lender 
in the 1992 assault on Europe's ERM, is Citicorp NA, the nation's largest bank.
 
Citicorp is more than a lending institution; it is a core part of the American 
liberal establishment. In 1989, as it became clear that German unification was 
a real possibility, a senior official at Citicorp, a former adviser to Michael 
Dukakis's Presidential campaign, told a European business associate that 
"German unity will be a disaster for our interests; we must take measures to 
ensure a sharp D-Mark collapse on the order of 30%, so that she will not have 
the capability to reconstruct East Germany into the economic engine of a new 
Europe."

While Soros was calling on world investors to pull down the deutsche mark in 
1993, he had been making a strong play in the French media, since late 1992, to
 
portray himself as a "friend of French interests."  Soros is reported to be 
close to senior figures of the French establishment, the Treasury, and in 
particular, Bank of France head Jean-Claude Trichet. In effect, Soros is 
echoing the old Entente Cordiale alliance against Germany, which helped 
precipitate World War 1.

Soros admits that he survived in Nazi Hungary during the war, as a Jew, by 
adopting what he calls a double personality. "I have lived with a double 
personality practically all my life," Soros recently stated. "It started at age
 
fourteen in Hungary, when I assumed a false identity in order to escape 
persecution as a Jew."  Soros admitted in a radio interview that his father 
gave him Nazi credentials in Hungary during the war, and he looted wealthy 
Jewish estates. Further research showed that this operation was probably run by
 
the SS.

Soros did not leave the country until two years after the war. Though he and 
his friends in the media are quick to attack any policy opponent of Soros, 
especially in eastern Europe, as being "anti-Semitic," Soros's Jewish identity 
apparently has only utilitarian value for him, rather than providing moral 
foundations. In short, the young Soros was a cynical, ambitious person, the 
ideal recruit for the British postwar intelligence network.

Soros savages eastern Europe

Soros has established no fewer than 19 "charitable" foundations across eastern 
Europe and the former Soviet Union. He has sponsored "peace" concerts in former
 
Yugoslavia with such performers as Joan Baez. He is helping send young east 
Europeans to Oxford University. A model citizen, is the image he broadcasts.

The reality is something else. Soros has been personally responsible for 
introducing shock therapy into the emerging economies of eastern Europe since 
1989. He has deliberately fostered on fragile new governments in the east the 
most draconian economic madness, policies which have allowed Soros and his 
financial predator friends, such as Marc Rich and Shaul Eisenberg, to loot the 
resources of large parts of eastern Europe at dirt-cheap prices. Here are 
illustrative case histories of Soros's eastern "charity":

Poland: In late 1989, Soros organized a secret meeting between the "reform" 
communist government of Prime Minister Mieczyslaw Rakowski and the leaders of 
the then-illegal Solidarnosc trade union organization. According to 
well-informed Polish sources, at that 1989 meeting, Soros unveiled his "plan" 
for Poland: The communists must let Solidarnosc take over the government, so as
 
to gain the confidence of the population. Then, said Soros, the state must act 
to bankrupt its own industrial and agricultural enterprises, using astronomical
 
interest rates, withholding state credits, and burdening firms with unpayable 
debt. Once thie were done, Soros promised that he would encourage his wealthy 
international business friends to come into Poland, as prospective buyers of 
the privatized state enterprises. A recent example of this privatization plan 
is the case of the large steel facility Huta Warsawa. According to steel 
experts, this modern complex would cost $3-4 billion for a western company to 
build new. Several months ago, the Polish government agreed to assume the debts
 
of Huta Warsawa, and to sell the debt-free enterprise to a Milan company, 
Lucchini, for $30 million!.

Soros recruited his friend, Harvard University economist Jeffery Sachs, who had
 
previously advised the Bolivian government in economic policy, leading to the 
takeover of that nation's economy by the cocaine trade. To further his plan in 
Poland, Soros set up one of his numerous foundations, the Stefan Batory 
Foundation, the official sponsor of Sach's work in Poland in 1989-90.

Soros boasts, "I established close personal contact with Walesa's chief 
adviser, Bronislaw Geremek. I was also received by [President Gen Wojciech] 
Jaruzelski, the head of State, to obtain his blessing for my foundation." He 
worked closely with the eminence gris of Polish shock therapy, Witold 
Trzeciakowski, a shadow adviser to Finance Minister   Leszek Balcerowicz. Soros
 
also cultivated relations with Balcerowicz, the man who would first impose 
Sach's shock therapy on Poland. Soros says when Walesa was elected President, 
that "largely because of western pressure, Walesa retained Balcerowicz as 
minister." Balcerowicz imposed a freeze on wages while industry was to be 
bankrupted by a cutoff of state credits. Industrial output fell by more than 
30% over two years.

Soros admits he knew in advance that his shock therapy would cause huge 
unemployment, closing  of factories, and social unrest. For this reason, he 
insisted that Solidarnosc be brought into the government, to help deal with the
 
unrest. Through the Batory Foundation, Soros coopted key media opinion makers 
such as Adam Michnik, and through cooperation with the U.S. Embassy in Warsaw, 
imposed a media censorship favorable to Soros's shock therapy, and hostile to 
all critics.

Russia and the Community of Independent States (CIS): Soros headed a delegation
 
to Russia, where he had worked together with Raisa Gorbachova since the late 
1980s, to establish the Cultural Initiative Foundation. As with his other 
"charitable foundations," this was a tax-free vehicle for Soros and his 
influential Western friends to enter the top policymaking levels of the 
country, and for tiny sums of scarce hard currency, but up important political 
and intellectual figures. After a false start under Mikhail Gorbachov in 
1988-91, Soros shifted to the new Yeltsin circle. It was Soros who introduced 
Jeffery Sachs and shock therapy into Russia, in late 1991. Soros describes his 
effort: "I started mobilizing a group of economists to take to the Soviet Union
 
(July 1990). Professor Jeffery Sachs, with whom I had worked in Poland, was 
ready and eager to participate. He suggested a number of other participants: 
Romano Prodi from Italy; David Finch, a retired official from the IMF  
[International Monetary Fund].  I wanted to include Stanley Fischer and Jacob 
Frenkel, heads of research of the World Bank and IMF, respectively; Larry 
Summers from Harvard and Michael Bruno of the Central Bank of Israel."

Since Jan. 2, 1992, shock therapy has introduced chaos and hyperinflation into 
Russia. Irreplaceable groups from advanced scientific research institutes have 
fled in pursuit of jobs in the West. Yegor Gaidar and the Yeltsin government 
imposed draconian cuts in state spending to industry and agriculture, even 
though the entire economy was state-owned. A goal of a zero deficit budget 
within three months was announced. Credit to industry was ended, and 
enterprises piled up astronomical debts, as inflation of the ruble went out of 
control.

The friends of Soros lost no time in capitalizing on this situation. Marc Rich 
began buying Russian aluminum at absurdly cheap prices, with his hard currency.
 
Rich then dumped the aluminum onto western industrial markets last year, 
causing a 30% collapse in the price of the metal, as western industry had no 
way to compete. There was such an outflow of aluminum last year from Russia, 
that there were shortages of aluminum for Russian fish canneries. At the same 
time, Rich reportedly moved in to secure export control over the supply of most
 
West Siberian crude oil to western markets. Rich's companies have been under 
investigation for fraud in Russia, according to a report in the Wall Street 
Journal of May 13, 1993.

Another Soros silent partner who has moved in to exploit the chaos in the 
former Soviet Union, is Shaul Eisenberg. Eisenberg, reportedly with a letter of
 
introduction from then-European Bank chief Jacques Attali, managed to secure an
 
exclusive concession for textiles and other trade in Uzbekistan. When Uzbek 
officials confirmed defrauding of the government by Eisenberg, his concessions 
were summarily abrogated. The incident has reportedly caused a major loss for 
Israeli Mossad strategic interests throughout the Central Asian republics.

Soros has extensive influence in Hungary. When nationalist opposition 
parliamentarian Istvan Csurka tried to protest what was being done to ruin the 
Hungarian economy, under the policies of Soros and friends, Csurka was labeled 
an "anti-Semite,"  and in June 1993, he was forced out of the governing 
Democratic Forum, as a result of pressure from Soros-linked circles in Hungary 
and abroad, including Soros's close friend, U.S. Rep. Tom Lantos.

Lighting the Balkan Fuse

In early 1990, in what was then still Yugoslavia, Soros's intervention with 
shock therapy, in cooperation with the IMF, helped light the economic fuse that
 
led to the outbreak of war in June 1991. Soros boasted at that time, 
"Yugoslavia is a particularly interesting case. Even as national rivalries have
 
brought the country to the verge of a breakup, a radical monetary stabilization
 
program, which was introduced on the same date as in Poland---January 1, 
1990-----has begun to change the political landscape. The program is very much 
along the Polish lines, and it had greater initial success. By the middle of 
the year, people were beginning to think Yugoslav again."

Soros is friends with former Deputy Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger, 
the former U.S. ambassador to Belgrade and the patron of Serbian Communist 
leader Slobodan Milosevic. Eagleburger is a past president of Kissinger 
Associates, on whose board sits Lord Carrington, whose Balkan mediations 
supported Serbian aggression into Croatia and Bosnia.

Today, Soros has established his Foundation centers in Bosnia, Croatia, 
Slovenia, and a Soros Yugoslavia Foundation in Belgrade, Serbia. In Croatia, he
 
has tried to use his foundation monies to woo influential journalists or to 
slander opponents of his shock therapy, by labeling them variously 
"anti-Semitic"  or  "neo-Nazi."  The head of Soros's Open Society 
Fund---Croatia, Prof. Zarko Puhovski, is a man who has reportedly made a recent
 
dramatic conversion from orthodox Marxism to Soros's radical free market. Only 
seven years ago, according to one of his former students, as professor of 
philosophy at the University of Zagreb, Puhovski attacked students trying to 
articulate a critique of communism, by insisting, "It is unprincipled to 
criticize Marxism from a liberal standpoint." His work for the Soros Foundation
 
in Zagreb has promoted an anti-nationalist "global culture," hiring a network 
of anti-Croatian journalists to propagandize, in effect, for the Serbian cause.

These examples can be elaborated for each of the other 19 locations across 
eastern Europe where George Soros operates. The political agenda of Soros and 
this group of financial "globalists" will create the conditions for a new 
outbreak of war, even world war, if it continues to be tolerated.

---end---

In article >,  > wrote:
| Dr. Lantos Arpad  > wrote:
| >
| >Alabbi felkeresem, felhivasom most negyedszer jelenik meg az SCM-ben. 
| >Kaptam visszajelzest ra Europabol, Del-Afrikabol, Ausztraliabol, ott elo 
| >magyaroktol, segiteni kesz tarsaktol.
| >Az amerikai kontinens magyarjai kozul senki, meg csak erdeklodo sem 
| >akadt.
| 
| Valoszinu azert, mert az amerikai magyarok mindegyikenek van rokona
| Magyarorszagon, s azok segitese elorebbvalo szamukra.
| 
| Pannon J.

Es az Ausztralok, Del-Afrikaiak, Europaiak?

Istvan

>> That's why Jesus gave to the apostles the power to change the human semen
>> into the Holy Spirit.
>
> I agree that there is a strong parallel between the Holy Spirit and
> human semen in that human semen is involved in the creation of new
> life, and when the Holy Spirit comes upon a human being, he or she is
> filled with new life, but I don't understand what you are intending
> to say whgen you say that "Jesus gave to the apostles the power to
> change the human semen into the Holy Spirit.

I am intending to say that Jesus gave to the apostles the power
to manipulate the divine person of the Holy Spirit. They received
the power to force the Holy Spirit to take on himself the form
of their semen. Not the semen is holy, but the Holy Spirit
which looks like a semen. It is like Eucharist: the difference
between bread and wine and body and blood of Christ. Both look
same, but in fact it is completly different. The sinful sexual
acts like adultery or pederasty become with the Holy Spirit
holy.

>> Why it is important? Well, for example when you fuck a boy with a semen,
>> it is a sin (Leviticus 18:22), but if you fuck a boy with the Holy Spirit,
>> you bless him (Genesis 32:24-29).
>
> This seems to me to be saying that the passing on of the Holy
> Spirit from one person to another is very like sexual intercourse
> in that it is a gift of new life.  Am I correct?

Exactly.

>> What is without the Holy Spirit adultery, is with the Spirit blessing.
>
> Are you saying that the physical act of sex has to be an actual
> part of this blessing?  Or is the symbolic act - such as the laying
> on of hands enought to transmit the Holy Spirit?

The blessing is an ejaculation, i.e. when the Holy Spirit, which looks like
a semen, goes out trought someone's penis, and someone is filled
by the Holy Spirit.

> I Corinthians suggests that the early churches had sexual orgies as
> part of their worship.  Paul condemned this as being wrong.  My own
> opinion is that the form of pagan worship that was carried out by
> the gentile nations included sex-orgies - and Christianity held
> this to be wrong.  I wouldn't have thought that the spiritual orgy
> that you describe would have looked like a sex orgy - why do you
> feel that this is the case?

Well, the power over the Holy Spirit received Peter and apostles as whole.
These are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 16:3 (?), 18:18).
On this power is based the apostolic tradition of the Catholic Church.
Christians held the gentile sex-orgies to be wrong, because they
didn't believe that from the gentile proceed the Holy Spirit, and
they didn't belive that they have the power to force the Holy Spirit
to take on himself the form of their semen.

In case of Acts 2:1-4 is written about tongues which looked like tongues
of fire. From the context is also clear that by that tongues were
the apostles filled by the Holy Spirit. What is more natural to think
than that the tongues were the erected penises of the apostles, and that
the Holy Spirit, which looked like a semen proceeded through them.
They filled each other by the Holy Spirit.

To understand the crucial importance of the apostolic power help us
Platon in his famous work "Symposium" where he decribes the kinds
of communication based on human sexuality. Socrates was the teacher
of Platon. Socrates met him when he was 13 years old boy. The relations
between them were highly homoerotical. Socrates loved Platon, made with
him love, and taught him philosophy. He taucht him, because he loved him.
I think that this is exactly the thing that ensures the judeo-catholic
continuation. The knowledge and power of Torah goes hand-in-hand together
with Eros. It is the mystery of the relation father-son. In the Holy Trinity
Christians glorify the sacred homosexuality. The Father loves his Son,
and he fill him by the Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit proceeds from both:
from the Father and from the Son. The Catholic Church tries to incorporate
the life of the Holy Trinity in its own life. That's why there is
the obligation of celibacy (i.e. to be not married and no other obligation),
and inadmission of women to an active priesthood (because from woman cannot
proceed the Holy Spirit in his most natural form, i.e. that of semen).

+Mordekhai

===> God+Jacob <===
===> David*Jonathan <===
===> Love is the Holy Spirit <===
===> The Holy Spirit ensures the unity of the Holy Trinity <===
===> Is Jesus the son of Ephraim, the son of Jacob? (read P.P.S.) <===


The apostles received many powers from Jesus.
The well known are: to change the wine into the blood (soul) of Christ,
and to change the bread into the body of Christ.

But from Eucharist doesn't proceed the Holy Spirit, as it proceeds
from the Son.

That's why Jesus gave to the apostles the power to change the human semen
into the Holy Spirit.

Why it is important? Well, for example when you fuck a boy with a semen,
it is a sin (Leviticus 18:22), but if you fuck a boy with the Holy Spirit,
you bless him (Genesis 32:24-29).

What is without the Holy Spirit adultery, is with the Spirit blessing.

The beautiful power gave Jesus to the apostles. The power of love.

The apostles used this power first time when they received the Holy Spirit.
(Acts 2:1-4) It was a spiritual orgy which looked like a sexual orgy, but
instead of semen there was "speaking" the Holy Spirit which looked like
a semen.

This power is used also during the eucharistic prayer, because the priests
put their hands above the bread and the wine. It is the symbol of love
(the Holy Spirit). The bread and wine are filled by the Holy Spirit,
and by that act the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ
full of the Holy Spirit. Something similar is happening during making
a new bishop. Love (the Holy Spirit) can take on himself many forms
(i.e. it can look like many thinks). The form of semen is one of them.

+Mordekhai

P.S.: The virginity of any man is broken only by a fucking with a semen,
but it remains unbroken by a fucking by the Holy Spirit. That's why
Mary is really virgin, because she was never fucked by a semen. She was
fucked by the Holy Spirit with the assistance of the angel Gabriel.

P.P.S.: There is possible to envelop a concept of spiritual genealogy
of Jesus, i.e. the genealogy of the Holy Spirit. Jacob was fucked
by the Holy Spirit (Genesis 32:24-29). He filled his son Josef
by the Holy Spirit, and Josef filled his son Ephraim by the Holy Spirit
(I Paralipomenon 5:1-2). It continued to the priest Eli which filled
Samuel the prophet by the Holy Spirit (I Samuel 3:6), Samuel filled
Shaul the first king of Israel, Shaul filled Jonathan his son,
Jonathan filled David (I Samuel 18:3, 20:16-17, 20:42, 23:18),
David filled Sholomo. It continued to John the Baptist which filled Jesus.

I will be interested to reconstruct the entire spiritual genealogy of Jesus.

This is, may be, the partial genealogy:
God->Jacob->Josef->Ephraim-> ... ->Eli->Samuel->Shaul->Jonathan->David->
Sholomo-> ... ->Elijah->JESUS

Wally Keeler > wrote:
>It is elementary justice that when you accuse someone of being a liar, you
>also present the evidence.
1. Nope, you present it at the trial. Want one?
2. I requested evidence for your accusations, and you never bothered. So quit
whining and demanding from others what you don't offer.
GK

Gyorgy Kovacs ) writes:
> Wally wrote:
>>The above post is not a poem, not a shining "metaphore" and contains no
>>"brilliant creative wordplay".
> 
> That was quite obvious for all of your posts.

Then why waste everyone's time stating the obvious, especially when it had
never been claimed to be otherwise?

> The only question remaining: why did you demand them to be in ohers' posts,

There was no DEMAND, there was only the stated observation of mediocrity,
banality, blandness, etc.

In article > Michael E Willett,
 writes:
>What is the reason that ABM Amro is buying Hungary's
>fifth biggest bank?

They have enough money to risk.

Tamas

 (wrote)
|Hat persze, hogy eszrevettem, de nem szivtam mellre. Ugyanis szerintem
|baratunknak az a bizonyos stilusa van, amit talan angolul
|"irreverent"-nek lehetne nevezni (hogy van ez magyarul?).  Azutan meg
|szereti a szojatekokat, fuggetlenul attol, hogy kit sert meg vele.
|Tovabba, mint a legtobb koltolelek, eleg hiu is.  Ezert aztan az
|ilyenekkel nem vitatkozni kell, hanem megnyerni.

Actually, Joe, I would add to "irreverent" the characteristics of
impudence, insolence, buffoonery, fool, etc, etc. 

|Szerintem annak idejen valoszinu Seton-Watson hiusagat is megserthettek
|magyarorszagi latogatasan, s az addig magyarbarat ifju tortenesztitanbol
|hazank legmegatalkodott ellensege lett.  Ennek kovetkezmenyeit ma is
|erezzuk.  Bezzeg Benes tudta hogyan kezelje a megsertodott S-W-t!
|Szoval nem art tanulni ebbol.

Not much chance of me getting a hate-on for Magyars. I personally know too
many highly intelligent and/or cultured Magyars to lose my way in this
regard. There are as many irreverent, impudent, insolent, Hungarian
buffoons as there are Canadian ones, including me. If there is any
contemporary poet that I model myself towards it is Irving Layton, a
Romanian-born Jew who is as Canadian as a snowbound moose. I do not
consider myself anywhere near his talent -- however, he has personally
acknowledged mine. When my vanity (and I have it) can rest on such a
foundation (and others as well, including Hungarian ones) then I can
withstand the ignorance of the pseudopoetry mantra indulged in by others.