In article >, Barnabas Bozoki
> writes:

>And please don't tell me what to post. If you read my post more careful,
>you will notice that I did not tell you what to do. I would not waste
time
>trying to change your ways. I only wanted the list to know that not
>everybody likes the type of rudeness and intolerance to other's views
what
>you display.
>
>BTW, thank for pointing out my mistake in writing etiquette.
>
>Barna Bozoki
>
>

It is not intolerance of someone else's views. It is intolerance of their
behavior. By the way, while we're on this style thing, you really could
stand to pepper your sentences with a few more verbs.
Sam Stowe

"If Rose don't like the city life,
I think I'll take her home..."
 -- The Flatlanders (Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore and Butch Hancock)

In article >, Tibor Benke
> writes:

>As this is going beyond the point of mere name calling and  approaching
the
>boundaries of libel, I am not going to not going to contribute to this
>thread any longer.
>
>Tibor Benke

>
>
Contribute all you want to. Threats of libel are the last refuge of the
desperate. And you had your patter down so well. Tch, tch, tch.
Sam Stowe

"If Rose don't like the city life,
I think I'll take her home..."
 -- The Flatlanders (Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore and Butch Hancock)

In article >,
Tom Wukitsch > writes:

>The faculty club has become somewhat inured to Stowicism and usually
>takes it with a rather large grain of salt.  New members can't know this,
>however, and shouldn't be subject to well known bad tempers.  Thanks
>for the reminder.
>
>Tom Wukitsch
>us-state.osis.gov
>
>
Ah, Foggy Bottom now weighs in with its considered diplomatic response.
Here's Wukitsching at you, kid!
Sam Stowe

"If Rose don't like the city life,
I think I'll take her home..."
 -- The Flatlanders (Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore and Butch Hancock)

In article <v01540b02ae099f259f9c@[204.191.170.105]>, E Fischer
> writes:

>please enjoy whatever intellectial limitations you attribute me. i shall
>not debate you in this fashion, mr. stowe. it is simply not worth my
time.
>
>regards
>ef
Elizabeth:
You forgot to mention libel. I haven't attributed any intellectual
limitations to you. Your offense is far worse. You appear to be someone
with few natural intellectual limitations beyond a strange form of hero
worship of e.e. cummings. Yet despite your seeming normalcy, you insist on
believing Tibor's ludicrous claims. Is that part of being an avant-garde
performance artist? Do you look like Laurie Anderson? Would you wear that
big white suit of David Byrne's when you perform in concert? And your
long-winded Web pages -- I am mistaking true art for pomposity aren't I? I
mean, geez -- us unwashed bourgeois types, we wouldn't know cultcha if it
smacked us upside the head.

Takes all kinds to make a faculty club, I guess. Please address any
follow-ups to this thread to my press agent and literary executor, Tom
Wukitsch, over at State.
Sam Stowe

"If Rose don't like the city life,
I think I'll take her home..."
 -- The Flatlanders (Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore and Butch Hancock)

E1va Balogh asks:
>         Could you elaborate on this. Why is it a "rather problematic work."


Lexicography is a complex field and it would be hard to provide a
non-technical discussion of why "A Magyar Nyelv E1rtelmezo3 Szo1ta1ra"
(E1rtSz) is a rather problematic work, since most of its shortcomings are
technical, but let me take a stab at it. There are five major problems.

First, the coverage is extremely weak i.e. there are many words missing. If
you get a chance try to compare with Attila T. Szabo1's "Erde1lyi Magyar
Szo1to2rte1neti Ta1r", which (again) proves the commonplace that the work of a
single dedicated person will, ceteris paribus, always be better than the work
of a committee.

Second, the system of headings and subheadings is neither well thought through
nor well carried out. This is a major structural element of any dictionary,
but a discussion would require more technical background than I could provide
here, sorry. Suffice it to say that there is a field of linguistics called
"semantics" but you couldn't even indirectly inform yourself of the methods
or results of his discipline by studying the definitions given in E1rtSz.

Third, the stylistic marking sucks. E1rtSz belongs in a tradition of
lexicography that is more intent on covering the extraordinary literary
devices used in poetry and "high" prose than the ordinary usage found in "low"
prose such as we find in everyday discourse, in newspapers, in scientific or
technical prose, etc. etc.

Fourth, I think the etymologies are good only as far as the Finno-Ugric
material is concerned, otherwise they are rather weak. I am no expert on
etymology, and I am not fully prepared to defend this point, but this is
my semi-educated opinion for what it's worth.

Finally, the definitions are ridiculously politicized, carrying a heavy
baggage of official Marxist-Leninist ideology. To some extent, this is
understandable (E1rtSz was written in the fifties and early sixties) but this
alone would make the work dated.

> >not too bad for some obscure Hungarian professor with a minimal
> >command of the English language.
>
>         Was his English really that minimal?
Not at all, I was quoting part of the original post with the intention of
being ironic...

Andra1s Kornai

In article >,
 says...
>
>At 11:47 AM 7/5/96 GMT, Steve Scheer wrote:
>
>>Laszlo Orszagh's dictitionaties contain many inaccuracies.
>>There are also many archaic usages there. Occasionally I don't
>>know where on earth he came up with some equivalences . . .
>>It's time for new English/Hungarian and Hungarian/English
>>dictionaries to come on the market . . .
>

>
>        I was so impressed with the explanations Sam received for his
>original question that maybe we should form a "munkakozosseg" and make
>ourselves famous by putting out the best English-Hungarian,
>Hungarian-English dictionary (;)).
>
>        Eva Balogh

I like this suggestion very much. In another post I have
suggested revising and updating the Orszagh Laszlo dictionary
(by the way, Eva Balogh, my own four-volume version is dated
1970 - so I haven't owned it for as much as 30 years . . . )
I learnt English more or less independently of Hungarian, too.
I was 18 when I came to the US. Once I knew the basics, though,
I switched from English-Hungarian and Hungarian-English
dictionaries to Webster's (and, subsequently, even the OED).

Speaking of English, I am also frequently annoyed by English
translations produced in Hungary or even just publications in
English produced in Hungary. Besides grammatical errors, at
times glaring, one also encounters very awkward constructions
on occasion. Perhaps the problem is that the translations
and other English-language publications produced in Hungary
are too mechanical, altogether too grammatically correct
for comfort. Some years ago I have even encountered the
use of "news" as a plural. As in, the "news are" . . . ouch!

Steven C. Scheer

In article >,
 says...
>
>Is the Gundel restaurant still considered to be one of the finest in
>Hungary?  Is it owned by George Lang, the author of "The Cuisine of
>Hungary"?  Have any of you eaten there?  Would you recommend it?
>
>Which is considered the best patisserie in Budapest, the Cafe New York or
>the Gerbeaud?  I've been to both and I can't decide.
>
>And one more question.  Is there any place in Budapest that serves North
>American style salads?
>
>Joe Szalai

I can't really answer most of your questions, but I do have
a few observations. First, when I last ate at Gundel, in 1989,
it wasn't owned by George Lang yet . . . the food then was
excellent there. Speaking of George Lang, his "Cuisine of Hungary"
contains a glaring error. The recipe for "galuska" needs exactly
twice the amount of water specified. I noticed that a new edition
of this book has been published, too. I checked the recipe for
galuska and the error still stands. Someone ought to let him
know. People who are not familiar with Hungarian cuisine and
who may have tried the galuska recipe are probably of the
opinion that galuska is this terrible, non-workable concuction . . .

North-American style salads . . . yes. I had relatives from
Hungary here a while back. I made a wonderful North-American
style salad with my favorite Italian dressing . . . One of
my relatives hated it instantly, said it was . . . "raw" . . .
Force of habit is habit forming . . . :-)

Steven C. Scheer

At 09:51 PM 7/10/96 -0500, NPA wrote:
>Joe Szalai wrote:
>
>>>      The last intriguing question: what is Barna Bozoki doing in the
>>>company of Elizabeth Fischer, Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva Durant?
>
>>The list is growing.  Scary.
>
>Yeah, count me in! ;-)


        I think the socialist group ought to be pleased to have a man of Mr.
Nemenyi's caliber among them.

        Eva Balogh

In our half hungarian family, it's usually rendered  "here's sneezing at you,
 kid."

Tom Wukitsch

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996  wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> Please find attached a letter of thanks to Congressman Newt Gingrich. It
...
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At 06:02 AM 7/11/96 -0700, Eva Balogh wrote:

>At 09:51 PM 7/10/96 -0500, NPA wrote:
>>Joe Szalai wrote:
>>
>>>>      The last intriguing question: what is Barna Bozoki doing in the
>>>>company of Elizabeth Fischer, Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva Durant?
>>
>>>The list is growing.  Scary.
>>
>>Yeah, count me in! ;-)
>
>
>        I think the socialist group ought to be pleased to have a man of Mr.
>Nemenyi's caliber among them.

Eva Balogh still believes, and no doubt will always believe, that if someone
doesn't swallow the superstitious, pro-capitalist b.s., hook, line and
sinker, they're socialist.  Well, what can I say?  Certainly, the 'socialist
group' isn't nearly as illustrious as the group on the political right that
she aligns herself with.  With illuminati such as Szucs Andras and the other
fine folks at public.siliconvalley.com, the expression 'hetkoznapi fasizmus'
takes on new life.  Now, Eva Balogh is eager to lump anyone who has ever
said anything critical of capitalism (perfection itself!) into the socialism
camp.  Well, I'm not like that.  I've read her writings and I know that
she's not part of the 'hetkoznapi fasizmus' group.  The only reason I bring
it up is to remind her that they too are on the political right.  Her
ceaseless political labeling and cheap shots are nothing more than a futile
attempt to cover up the shortcomings of her political analysis.

Joe Szalai

eva balogh writes:

>Elizabeth Fischer was personally attacked a few days ago on
>soc.culture.magyar.

ah! you found it important to ahm... "out" me. certainly puts an
interesting twist to your personality, ms. balogh.


She had commented on one of siliconvalley's phoneys who,
>this time, tried to imitate a semi-illiterate Hungarian peasant. The
>imitation was rather poor and Elizabeth Fischer said so. Her antagonist
>reminded her that not long time ago Ms. Fischer herself claimed that her
>Hungarian had become rather rusty and therefore, she is the last person to
>comment on other people's style.

i left hungary when i was nine. thus, my language skills are indeed
limited. limited, though not non-existent. my *comprehension* is excellent;
it is only that i lack vocabulary to express myself to my own satisfaction.
as to said ridiculous person on the newsgroup, surely that cannot be
construed as a challenge! and the particular pungent flavour of hungarian
"comic" writing comes easy to me, i enjoy it. it is only in reasoned debate
that i fail. or flail. but only in hungarian, ms. balogh.


>        I raised my voice against this attack which I didn't think was fair.
>First of all, Ms. Fischer has been on the Hungarian-language Internet lists
>for a long time and if a year or two ago her Hungarian was not up to snuff
>it is most likely that at the moment it is just fine.

as i said, no, it is not fine. kindly consider that of which you accuse me.

>        So, I stood up for her! Did she stand up for me when Tibor Benke
>attacked me and my professional competence? Oh, no, because what I read of
>Ms. Elizabeth Fischer she and Mr. Benke are rather close when it comes to
>political philosophy.

a spurrious line of argument, ms. balogh. i will defend your opinions when
they warrant it in my estimation. when they do not, i will not. that is
entirely up to whatever subject is at hand.

>Therefore, it is perfectly all right to make a
>personal attack on Eva Balogh but it is not all right to sound skeptical
>concerning Mr. Benke's multiple handicaps.

it is odd that you would consider my disagreement with your methods of
debate a personal attack. as i said, i will defend you when it is warranted
in my opinion. in this case, i thought you wrong, in method. you simply did
not have the information neccessary to make such statements.


>        Now comes the interesting twist. Barna Bozoki's political philosophy
>is very far from that of Ms. Elizabeth Fischer and Tibor Benke--practically
>the opposite end of the spectrum. He would be the first person to complain
>about "political correctness" and yet, he comes out on the side of Tibor
>Benke.

please stop tying this into the extant political polarizations. i have no
idea who mr. bozoki is other than these couple of posts. i only just
re-subbed to this list after a three year absence. having gotten sick of
these very self-same polarizations on hungarian language fora, i unsubbed
from both forum and szalon quite a while ago. more than sick in fact. the
racism became excrutiating. but that is another story.

but, it is also a fact that part of my frustration with the former was my
inability to properly address issues. language limitations, ms. balogh.

if mr. bozoki chooses to agree with me on this, it certainly does not
preclude that he may disagree with me on something other. in fact i fully
expect him to.

perhaps this can serve as a lesson; that it *is* possible to agree on some
points, and fervently disagree on others. that perhaps it is not so very
neccessary to pledge allegiances to only one side or another. that there
are in fact a myriad of viewpoints. and subtleties of opinion.


>>he hasn't proven that he has any discernible disability. And he has
>>followed the pattern of attacking other members of this list, then
>>claiming this disability in order to shield himself from retribution.

i have already addressed this issue.


>        Ms. Fischer claims that a person with such disabilities might see
>connections we ordinary mortals can't.

i never said such a thing. please re-read my posts on the subject, i
believe you to have misunderstood them.

>Ordinary logic won't do and my humble
>self who cannot claim any such disability actually less able to discern the
>truth. May I suggest that this is far-fetched, if not baseless.

myself, and please note that i am not mr. benke, nor do i subscribe
unfailingly to all his opinions, i do not believe "truth" to be quite so
ironclad. i belive the concept of a truth to be mutable with any new
information.

i would prefer history not to repeat itself ad nauseam. would you consider
me naive for such a wish? for naive i wish to be at this point. call it an
intellectual decision to pursue such naivite. an attempt at a rational
impulse to kindness towards this seething mass of humanity. how very
foolish of me, ms. balogh, i really should know better.

and i do know better. unfortunately. but i also know that there is no
cure-all. at best one can attempt an ... understanding of impulse.


>        If we make a statement (1) communism was caused by the excesses of
>capitalism and claim (2) that there was a global capitalist economy in place
>by 1917, but (3) only in Russia was "communism" successful, then according
>to ordinary rational thinking it should be obvious that (1) cannot be true.
>However, Mr. Benke, waiving his so-called disability in front of us, claims
>that this kind of rational thinking is actually inferior cognition.

this particular debate is not my own. i do not know enough of history to
come out on one side or another. i am sure the more rational debaters can
offer convincing points to be considered on both sides. therefore i am
quite willing to think on both, or many more, for that matter. and to form
my *own* opinions. my *own* mode of behavior, interaction. which perhaps
would differ from yours; which *do* differ from yours. and mr. bozoki's.
and also mr. benke's.

>
>        The last intriguing question: what is Barna Bozoki doing in the
>company of Elizabeth Fischer, Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva Durant?

i am sorry to disabuse you of the notion of "companies", "groups",
"gangs"... for that matter, "political parities". i adhere to no
religiosities, be that systematic political belief imperatives, parties...
or other such. which also includes any so called spiritual undertakings. as
they all give me the willies, every one of them.

but that is just *me*, ms. balogh.

ef

At 02:35 AM 7/11/96 GMT, Steven C. Scheer wrote:

>North-American style salads . . . yes. I had relatives from
>Hungary here a while back. I made a wonderful North-American
>style salad with my favorite Italian dressing . . . One of
>my relatives hated it instantly, said it was . . . "raw" . . .
>Force of habit is habit forming . . . :-)

Your relative was rather diplomatic.  I've heard Hungarians discribe
North-American style salads as 'rabbit food'.  Given the number of
Hungarians who have stomach ulcers you'd figure they'd improve their diet.
But, no!

Joe Szalai

Eva Balogh, based on a completely apolitical discussion about net
etiquette, insinuated some political alliances where none exists.

I suggest she should look into the "Nemzet" to find strange political
alliances. In the July 10. issue there is an interview from the Democrat,
a so called "right wing" weekly, where Kosa (socialist member of
parliament and member of the MSZP presidium) is quoted to say about the
life in Hungary today, as follows:

"Megdobbent a szabad rablasnak az orulete, ami most zajlik, s ami
szetforgacsolja az emberek kozti kapcsolatokat. Felelmet es
bizonytalansagot visz az eletunkbe, s minosegi csokkenest a szellemi
eletunkbe is -"

A rough free translation: The way thing going on now shocks me, the
unrestrained profiteering creates division and animosity among the people.
It creates fear and uncertainty in our life, even the quality of our
intellectual life is reduced.

I think both Torgyan and Thurmer have expressed similar views, may be they
have a common enemy?.

Barna Bozoki

You know, I joined the HUNGARY list because three years ago I had my
first opportunity to visit Budapest, one of the most beautiful cities in
the world in my opinion and located in a country of which I knew really
nothing about.  Being an American who remembers having to wear dog tags
around my neck during the Cuban missile crisis, Vietnam,  Gary Francis
Powers, and Ronald Reagan's "Evil Empire," I relish every opportunity to
learn about some of the most fascinating countries around.

I have thoroughly enjoyed much of the HUNGARY list - the recollections of
1956 are truly special to me and i have most of them.  I've also enjoyed
everything from recipes to people asking about places to go and things to
see and do to discussions of how the old Austro-Hungarian empire was
carved up.

I am, though, really tired of people spending days attacking each other
personally.  I know the subjects discussed on this list are extremely
personal to some, and some of the positions people take spark
exceedingly strong feelings in others, feelings that are well-founded.
For those of you who chose, or were forced to flee your homes during the
communist era, I understand how someone saying something positive or kind
or supportive about leaders of that time can open old wounds.

Please, though, let's stick to ISSUES not personalities.  It is the
issues, not the individual personalities that are important.  I truly
believe most if not all of those on the list are literate, mature,
well-educated adults, so all of you know that it is possible to
disagree without resorting to name-calling and personal attacks.

As those of you who have been on this list awhile know, I write seldom,
preferring to carry on personal discussions, disagreements, etc., with
the individual writer, rather than over the list.  Further, I'm on this
list to learn.  I need the information, history, cultural information, I
can get from this list.  It's important to me as I continue my travels
and work in Central Europe.  I can't get this information, though, if I
have to continually spend lots of time deleting personal attacks that are
labelled something else.  I truly believe I have missed important
information that I could have used because I have gotten tired of reading
all the RE:__________ that have been personal attacks, but someone,
sometime during the exchange of personal harangues, has said something
important.

Some of you enjoy attacking everything someone says, so I expect to have
several people attack me and what I have said today.  Go ahead.  However,
please don't bore everyone by putting it on the list.  Send it to me
personally.  My e-mail is .  Don't bother the rest
of the people when what you want to do is attack me.

Sincerely,

Frank A. Aycock, Ph.D.
Assoc. Prof. of Comunication
Appalachian State University

Hurrah:finaly somebody with good english spelling adn grammer put my thought
on this thread.I belive this person said it for most of us,who would enjoy
reading "Hungary"without personal attacs,just so they can proove they are
right.Thank's Andy.>You know, I joined the HUNGARY list because three years
ago I had my
>first opportunity to visit Budapest, one of the most beautiful cities in
>the world in my opinion and located in a country of which I knew really
>nothing about.  Being an American who remembers having to wear dog tags
>around my neck during the Cuban missile crisis, Vietnam,  Gary Francis
>Powers, and Ronald Reagan's "Evil Empire," I relish every opportunity to
>learn about some of the most fascinating countries around.
>
>I have thoroughly enjoyed much of the HUNGARY list - the recollections of
>1956 are truly special to me and i have most of them.  I've also enjoyed
>everything from recipes to people asking about places to go and things to
>see and do to discussions of how the old Austro-Hungarian empire was
>carved up.
>
>I am, though, really tired of people spending days attacking each other
>personally.  I know the subjects discussed on this list are extremely
>personal to some, and some of the positions people take spark
>exceedingly strong feelings in others, feelings that are well-founded.
>For those of you who chose, or were forced to flee your homes during the
>communist era, I understand how someone saying something positive or kind
>or supportive about leaders of that time can open old wounds.
>
>Please, though, let's stick to ISSUES not personalities.  It is the
>issues, not the individual personalities that are important.  I truly
>believe most if not all of those on the list are literate, mature,
>well-educated adults, so all of you know that it is possible to
>disagree without resorting to name-calling and personal attacks.
>
>As those of you who have been on this list awhile know, I write seldom,
>preferring to carry on personal discussions, disagreements, etc., with
>the individual writer, rather than over the list.  Further, I'm on this
>list to learn.  I need the information, history, cultural information, I
>can get from this list.  It's important to me as I continue my travels
>and work in Central Europe.  I can't get this information, though, if I
>have to continually spend lots of time deleting personal attacks that are
>labelled something else.  I truly believe I have missed important
>information that I could have used because I have gotten tired of reading
>all the RE:__________ that have been personal attacks, but someone,
>sometime during the exchange of personal harangues, has said something
>important.
>
>Some of you enjoy attacking everything someone says, so I expect to have
>several people attack me and what I have said today.  Go ahead.  However,
>please don't bore everyone by putting it on the list.  Send it to me
>personally.  My e-mail is .  Don't bother the rest
>of the people when what you want to do is attack me.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Frank A. Aycock, Ph.D.
>Assoc. Prof. of Comunication
>Appalachian State University
>
>

>You know, I joined the HUNGARY list because three years ago I had my
>first opportunity to visit Budapest, one of the most beautiful cities in
>the world in my opinion and located in a country of which I knew really
>nothing about.  Being an American who remembers having to wear dog tags
>around my neck during the Cuban missile crisis, Vietnam,  Gary Francis
>Powers, and Ronald Reagan's "Evil Empire," I relish every opportunity to
>learn about some of the most fascinating countries around.
>
>I have thoroughly enjoyed much of the HUNGARY list - the recollections of
>1956 are truly special to me and i have most of them.  I've also enjoyed
>everything from recipes to people asking about places to go and things to
>see and do to discussions of how the old Austro-Hungarian empire was
>carved up.
>
>I am, though, really tired of people spending days attacking each other
>personally.  I know the subjects discussed on this list are extremely
>personal to some, and some of the positions people take spark
>exceedingly strong feelings in others, feelings that are well-founded.
>For those of you who chose, or were forced to flee your homes during the
>communist era, I understand how someone saying something positive or kind
>or supportive about leaders of that time can open old wounds.
>
>Please, though, let's stick to ISSUES not personalities.  It is the
>issues, not the individual personalities that are important.  I truly
>believe most if not all of those on the list are literate, mature,
>well-educated adults, so all of you know that it is possible to
>disagree without resorting to name-calling and personal attacks.
>
>As those of you who have been on this list awhile know, I write seldom,
>preferring to carry on personal discussions, disagreements, etc., with
>the individual writer, rather than over the list.  Further, I'm on this
>list to learn.  I need the information, history, cultural information, I
>can get from this list.  It's important to me as I continue my travels
>and work in Central Europe.  I can't get this information, though, if I
>have to continually spend lots of time deleting personal attacks that are
>labelled something else.  I truly believe I have missed important
>information that I could have used because I have gotten tired of reading
>all the RE:__________ that have been personal attacks, but someone,
>sometime during the exchange of personal harangues, has said something
>important.
>
>Some of you enjoy attacking everything someone says, so I expect to have
>several people attack me and what I have said today.  Go ahead.  However,
>please don't bore everyone by putting it on the list.  Send it to me
>personally.  My e-mail is .  Don't bother the rest
>of the people when what you want to do is attack me.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Frank A. Aycock, Ph.D.
>Assoc. Prof. of Comunication
>Appalachian State University
>
>Bravo agin.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                       FAQ - Hungarian American List
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contents

  1. General Information, What Is The Hungarian American List
  2. WWW, FTP, Usenet, Gopher Info, List Archives
  3. Regular Services From The Hungarian American List
  4. How To Subscribe Or Unsubscribe
  5. How To Post To The Hungarian American List
  6. What To Post To The Hungarian American List
  7. What Not To Post To The Hungarian American List
  8. HunOR - Hungarian Online Resources
  9. Hungarian Electronic Resources FAQ
 10. soc.culture.magyar Usenet group by mail
 11. Hungarian Lobby political forum
 12. Disclaimers

------------------------------

Subject: 1. General Information, What Is The Hungarian American List?

1.1 Purpose - The Hungarian American List has been created to serve the
community with information of Magyar (Hungarian) interest. It is intended
to provide a general medium for those interested in expressing, sharing,
and exchanging their views, ideas, and feelings about Magyars (Hungarians)
and Magyar (Hungarian) culture. Posting to the list about Magyar
(Hungarian) events in the United States is strongly encouraged.

1.2 Language - The group is a mixed language Magyar (Hungarian) / English
(Angol) group. Anyone, regardless of race, ethnic origin, religion or
political belief can post to the Hungarian American List. This list is to
promote understanding between people with interest in modern Hungarian
culture, politics and Hungarian history, cultural heritage.

1.3 Moderation - The list is unmoderated, with no limit on daily postings.
It is up to your discretion what you post to the Hungarian American List.

1.4 Distribution - Mail sent to the posting address, >,
is distributed in four different forms. These lists are:

1.4.1 hungary list - you get every mail that has been sent to
the > address, one-by-one, immediately

1.4.2 hungary-digest list - you get every mail in digest form, once a day

1.4.3 hungary-news list - you get only the news from the list, no discussions,
digest form, once a day

1.4.4 hungary-talk list - you get everything but news items from the list,
digest form, once a day


------------------------------

Subject: 2. WWW, FTP, Usenet, Gopher Info, List Archives

2.1 The WWW Home Page of the Hungarian American List is located at URL

        http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/

2.2 The WWW homepage of the UMCP Hungarian American Association, owner of
the Hungarian American List, is located at URL

        http://www.glue.umd.edu/hungaria/

The mailing address of the UMCP Hungarian American Association is :

        

2.3 On the WWW, the archives of the Hungarian American List are located at URL

        http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/archive/
        http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/ftp/archive/
        ftp://mineral.umd.edu/pub/hungary/

2.4 The archives and several other important documents can be reached via
anonymous FTP. Login to mineral.umd.edu as anonymous, give your full email
address as your password when asked. The archives are located in the
pub/hungary directory.

2.5 Digests of the Hungarian American List and news from the list are
regularly posted to the soc.culture.magyar newsgroup on Usenet. You might
be able to find postings from the Hungarian American List in any Usenet
archive, such as e.g.

        http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/soc.culture.magyar/

------------------------------

Subject: 3. Regular Services From The Hungarian American List

   * Daily     : An opportunity for uncensored, unlimited electronic
                 discussions
   * Daily     : News from Voice of America
   * Weekdays  : Central Europe Today On-Line articles concerning
                 Hungarians and Americans
   * Weekdays  : OMRI articles concerning Hungarian Americans
   * Weekdays  : OMRI Analytical Briefs
   * Every 2-3
     days      : Reuter, UPI and AP news
   * Regularly : AAYH announcements
   * Regularly : News from NATO
   * Regularly : Hungarian Lobby action announcements
   * Regularly : Update on the growing Hungarian WWW situation

------------------------------

Subject: 4. How To Subscribe Or Unsubscribe

4.1 It is very important that you understand the following lines in order
to fully enjoy the advantages of the discussion list. You have to send
your commands to subscribe, unsubscribe to the >
address. This address is different from the list's address,
>, the address where you should send your messages.

4.2 It is also important for you to understand, that regardless whether
you are subscribed to <hungary>, <hungary-digest>, <hungary-talk> or
<hungary-news>, you should always send your letters, comments to the
> address. > is the "INPUT"
address for all four lists. There are four "OUTPUT" lists for the same
input, therefore, please, make sure that you are receiving letter either
from <hungary> (everything, mail-by-mail) or <hungary-digest> (everything
in digest form), or <hungary-talk> (no news in digest form), or
<hungary-news> (news only in digest form). You will get only duplicates of
messages if you are subscribed to more than one list!

4.3 To subscribe to the Hungarian American List, send the following in the
body (not the subject line) of an email message to 

        subscribe hungary

To subscribe to the digest form, your letter should contain only:

        subscribe hungary-digest

To subscribe to the news-only digest form, your letter should contain:

        subscribe hungary-news

To subscribe to the talk-only digest form, your letter should contain:

        subscribe hungary-talk

These will subscribe the account from which you send the message to the
Hungarian American List.

4.4 Subscribing a different address - If you wish to subscribe another
address instead (such as a local redistribution list), you can use a
command of the form:

     subscribe hungary 

or, correspondingly:

     subscribe hungary-digest 
     subscribe hungary-news 
     subscribe hungary-talk 

4.5 Unsubscribing, switching between lists - When you are switching from
one list (OUTPUT) to the other, please, make sure you are unsubscribing
from your current list. To unsubscribe from Hungarian American List, send
the following in the body (not the subject line) of an email message to
 :

        unsubscribe hungary

or, either one of the following lines that applies to you:

        unsubscribe hungary-digest
        unsubscribe hungary-talk
        unsubscribe hungary-news

This will unsubscribe the account from which you send the message. If you
are subscribed with some other address, you'll have to send a command of
the following form instead:

        unsubscribe hungary 

or, correspondingly:

        unsubscribe hungary-digest 
        unsubscribe hungary-news 
        unsubscribe hungary-talk 

4.6 You cannot unsubscribe - If you try to unsubscribe from an address
different from what you subscribed from a while ago, you will get a
rejection message. You have to subscribe the address you originally
subscribed to the list. If you are not sure or do not remember what
address you are subscribed with, you can send the following command to
 to see who else is on the list (assuming that
information isn't designated "private" by the owner of the list):

        who hungary
or
        who hungary-talk
        who hungary-digest
        who hungary-news

4.7 Info file - To retrieve the information you are currently reading,
mail the command below to  :

        info hungary
or
        info hungary-digest
        info hungary-news
        info hungary-talk

4.8 Majordomo information -To find out more about the automated server and
the commands it understands, send the following command to
 :

        help

------------------------------

Subject: 5. How To Post To The Hungarian American List

5.1 To post an article/message/question to the whole list, send it to
. It will be distributed automatically to all
subscribers. This is valid for all for list. If you are subscribed to the
News, Digest or Talk lists, your posting address - the address where you
should send your responses to - is still the  address.
The lists work like this:

5.1.1 hungary : on HAL everybody receives all of the messages, one at a time

5.1.2 hungary-digest: you receive all of the messages, in digest form., once
a day

5.1.3 hungary-news: you receive only the news items from HAL in digest form

5.1.4 hungary-talk: you receive everything from HAL but the news items, in
digest form

5.2 Replying -Simply reply to the mail you will receive from your list.
Your mailer should use the address under the Reply To: field. To send a
message to the originator of the article, reply to the article and make
sure you are using only the address under the From: field.

5.3 The list is unmoderated; nobody screens the messages before they are
posted. Before you post to the list, be sure that your message is correct.
Use lines shorter than 80 characters since many mailers truncate longer
lines. Remember that what you post will be received by many people
throughout the world. Try to educate and be educated, although, do not be
afraid to ask any questions regarding Hungary and Hungarian Americans. In
particular, if you ask a question, you should send a summary of the
responses to the list, thus allowing others to learn along with you.

5.4 Subject - The most important part of your posting is the Subject
field. The subject line should not be longer than 40 characters. People
screen incoming e-mail by the subject line, so make it clear.

5.5 Size - If you are posting a long file, please split it into chunks
which are smaller than 50 kBytes. Always identify the part number and
total number of parts in the Subject line .

5.6 Your email address - As a courtesy to the other subscribers, it is a
good idea to include your name and e-mail address at the end of your
message so that people may contact you directly. The e-mail address in the
message header can sometimes be mangled en route to the other subscribers;
including it manually or in your signature file will ensure that others
have your proper e-mail address. (On the other hand, try to keep your
signature down to three or four lines; more than that wastes bandwidth.)

------------------------------

Subject: 6. What To Post To The Hungarian American List

Possible topics of discussions may include :

   *  local events, movies , concerts, art exhibitions
   *  communities , problems, needs, meetings, charities, associations
   *  societies, traditions, customs ,folklore
   *  languages, books
   *  science, technology,
   *  non-profit business, jobs , positions
   *  food, cookery, drinks, cuisine, diners, restaurants
   *  sports, tennis, hiking, soccer
   *  travel, carpooling, air-travel
   *  Other Hungarian, Hungarian American associations' news
   *  etc...

In general, anything that you are interested in is worth sharing with the
people on the list, regardless of whether or not it has direct connection
to Magyar (Hungarian) issues .

------------------------------

Subject: 7. What Not To Post To The Hungarian American List

Things you may not want to post to the list :

   *  anti-Hungarian soliciting
   *  hate mail
   *  racist attacks
   *  personal attacks

------------------------------

Subject: 8. HunOR - Hungarian Online Resources

HunOR is a collection of people and services that was formed to provide
information about Hungary and Hungarian Americans. Currently it consists
of:

*  UMCP Hungarian American Association Homepage
   (http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/)
*  Hahn - Hungarian American HyperNews, (http://mineral.umd.edu/hahn/)
*  HAL - Hungarian American List, (http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/)
*  HIR - Hungarian Information Resources, (http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/)
*  HL - Hungarian Lobby, (http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/)
*  Interactive Usenet Archives, (http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/)

------------------------------

Subject: 9. Hungarian Electronic Resources FAQ

Further information about other Hungarian Internet sources can be found at
the following sites :

*  http://mineral.umd.edu/faq/
*  http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/
*  ftp://mineral.umd.edu/pub/faq/
*  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/soc.culture.magyar/
*  ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq
*  ftp://ftp.alt.net/pub/hungarian/

------------------------------

Subject: 10. soc.culture.magyar Usenet group by mail

The Hungarian Usenet group - soc.culture.magyar is available via our new
service. You will be able to receive and reply to individual postings
using a so called Mail-To-News gateway.

10.1 Subscription - To subscribe :

* send a mail to 
* no Subject necessary
* in the body of the letter write:

        subscribe soc-culture-magyar
or
        subscribe soc-culture-magyar-digest

, if you want to receive the Usenet postings in digest form, one mail per day.

10.2 How to unsubscribe :

* send a mail to 
* no Subject necessary
* in the body of the letter write:

        unsubscribe soc-culture-magyar
or
        unsubscribe soc-culture-magyar-digest

In other words, please, just follow the probably well known procedures for
Majordomo lists. You will find above more details about Majordomo
commands. We hope this way we are bringing even closer the Hungarian and
American community.

10.3 How to send a message to the Usenet group soc.culture.magyar? Simply
reply to the mail you will receive from .
Your mailer should use the address under the Reply To: field. To send a
message to the originator of the article, reply to the article and make
sure you are using the address under the From: field. The messages will
have an SCM:... subject line, to help you to tell soc.culture.magyar
messages from your regular mail.

10.4 The archive of the soc.culture.magyar Usenet group is located at URL
http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/soc.culture.magyar/

10.5 The following directory contains the archives of numerous other
Usenet groups of Hungarian interest:

        http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/

------------------------------

Subject: 11. Hungarian Lobby political forum

11.1 The Hungarian Lobby (HL) is not a discussion group or a debating
society. Our goal is to influence our political leaders and the media
through the writing of letters and articles, which we send by E-mail,
fax-broadcasting and through regular mail.

11.2 All HL participants are asked to post ALL letters they send to their
representatives or the press, so that we all can benefit from the ideas
contained in them and can give support, if we agree with them. Similarly
we would like you to post the news of all law or human rights violations
that you learn about within the Carpathian Basin, or any news of of
incomplete or erroneous reporting on Hungary in the Western press.

11.3 The list is available in regular <hl> and digest <hl-digest> form.
There is also the moderated <hl-action> list, for busy individuals who
want to participate in lobbying for Hungarian causes but do not want to
participate in discussions.

11.4 To subscribe to the Hungarian Lobby, Hungarian Lobby Digest or
Hungarian Lobby Action lists, send the corresponding command in the body
(not the subject line) of an email message to 
either
        subscribe hl
 or
        subscribe hl-digest
 or
        subscribe hl-action

11.5 The archives of the Hungarian Lobby are located at URL

        http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/archive/
        http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/ftp/archive/
        ftp://mineral.umd.edu/pub/hl/

------------------------------

Subject: 12. Disclaimers

The list is provided, as is, to people interested in Hungarian culture.
It is provided with the intention of helping to keep Hungarians and
Americans informed and in closer contact with each other. By posting to
this list you agree that the content represents your personal opinion. In
no event will University of Maryland (UMD), its employees and affiliates,
or the list administrators be liable for the opinions or materials posted.
UMD is not reviewing the materials submitted to this list and cannot stop
their distribution. The messages distributed by the Hungarian American
List come without any warranty. If you decide to use them, you do so at
your own risk.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                     End of Hungarian American List FAQ
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, I would like to thank Andras for his elaboration on the
shortcomings of the seven-volume Hungarian monolingual dictionary. Second, I
read the introduction to my *Magyar Ertelmezo Keziszotar," the one-volume
modern monolingual dictionary and from that I gathered that Andras is one
hundred percent right about his criticisms. The preface/introduction
announces that the one-volume dictionary--which is supposed to be the
equaivalent of Webster's in the United States or the one-volume Oxford in
England--has only 70,000 words in it. And, the editors of the "keziszotar"
claim that they added about 15,000 more words than contained in the
seven-volume dictionary, mostly from technical and scientific sources. I
have not been able to find out how many words my Webster's Ninth New
Collegiate Dictionary has, but I bet it isn't 70,000.


>Fourth, I think the etymologies are good only as far as the Finno-Ugric
>material is concerned, otherwise they are rather weak. I am no expert on
>etymology, and I am not fully prepared to defend this point, but this is
>my semi-educated opinion for what it's worth.

        Sorry to be a pest but what is your opinion, Andras, of the
three-volume etymological dictionary?

>Finally, the definitions are ridiculously politicized, carrying a heavy
>baggage of official Marxist-Leninist ideology. To some extent, this is
>understandable (E1rtSz was written in the fifties and early sixties) but this
>alone would make the work dated.

        My copy of *Magyar Ertelmezo Keziszotar* is the very first edition.
It was published in 1972 and it is still full of official Marxist-Leninist
ideological verbiage. The only reason I haven't discarded it and bought a
newer edition because I am not sure how successful the editors were in
weeding out all that garbage.

        Eva Balogh

At 08:46 PM 7/10/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>At 03:03 PM 7/10/96 -0700, Eva Balogh wrote:
>
>>        Meanwhile political biases are so strong that an obviously faulty
>>statement on the origin of Russian communism receives immediate applause
>>from Joe Szalai and Eva Durant, regardless of its merit.
>
>This is pure fabrication.  Please show the readers of this List where I gave
>my "immediate applause"?  I gave no applause whatsoever.  (Hey!  All you Eva
>Balogh fans.  Watch her dodge my question.)

        You personally may not have but Eva Durant was raving about the
contents of Tibor Benke's piece. I think she used the word "excellent." I
must admit I lumped the two of you together because normally you two agree
one hundred percent. I have never heared the two of you argue about
anything. And I bet that although you didn't openly "applaud," but on the
whole you agreed with Tibor Benke's analysis of the origins of "communism."


>>The hypothesis that
>>the immediate cause of the the Russian revolution was war weariness is
>>widely accepted among historians, but our Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva
>>Durant cannot possibly accept this historical hypothesis because, I guess,
>>their whole world view would crumble if it were true.
>
>Don't lose any sleep over the possibility of my world view crumbling.  And
>it's not me who cannot possibly accept the historical hypothesis.  Oh, I can
>accept it as a hypothesis, alright.  It's you who cannot accept it.  The
>problem is that you accept it not as a hypothesis, but as, "The Truth".

        No, the problem is that you people refuse to contemplate the
possibility that "capitalism" and "communism" are not linked in any
substantial way. Up to now we have heard the following: (1) the evils of
capitalism caused the Soviet-type of communism. But when it is pointed out
that Russia was not a full-fledged capitalist country we have variations on
the same theme: (2) Marx lived in a capitalist country; (3) Russian
aristocracy was enamored with French culture; (4) there was a global
capitalist economy by 1917 and although Russia was the "weakest link" in
that capitalist economy it doesn't really matter, (5) there were some other
attempts at a proletarian revolution in Germany and Hungary. And one can go
on and on.

        But I am returning to my original question. "If the evils of
capitalism are responsible for the outbreak of the Bolshevik Revolution, how
is it possible that the predicted proletarian revolution broke out only in
countries which lost the war. The difference between loosers and winners in
World War I was economic strength. In the west it was a draw but the
entrance of the United States tipped the scale. When it came to
Austria-Hungary, Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, etc. these countries simply
couldn't hack it economically.


>>        The last intriguing question: what is Barna Bozoki doing in the
>>company of Elizabeth Fischer, Joe Szalai, Tibor Benke, and Eva Durant?
>
>The list is growing.  Scary.

        I fired off a quick, sarcarstic little note this morning but I think
that I wasn't accurate enough. It is not so much the caliber of Mr. Nemenyi
which matters--it is his political philosophy which is not exactly your cup
of tea. I am not sure whether you really would like to have him as your
comrade-in-arms. But, of course, if you are that desperate, please enlist
him in the group.

        Eva Balogh

At 01:15 PM 7/11/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>Certainly, the 'socialist
>group' isn't nearly as illustrious as the group on the political right that
>she aligns herself with.  With illuminati such as Szucs Andras and the other
>fine folks at public.siliconvalley.com, the expression 'hetkoznapi fasizmus'
>takes on new life.

        To use a Hungarian saying: you are mixing up the "hokedli" with the
"nokedli," or the "szezon" with the "fazon." Obviously, you cannot
distinguish between far-right and liberal democracy, lumping them together
in the most primitive way. Can't you see the difference between someone like
Andras Szucs, or some of the other illuminaries of the far right and people
on this list who belong to the liberal democratic camp?

>Now, Eva Balogh is eager to lump anyone who has ever
>said anything critical of capitalism (perfection itself!) into the socialism
>camp.

        I would like to call your attention that Hitler said many things
which were "critical of capitalism," in fact, he called his ideology,
"national socialism," not to be mixed up with the international kind.

>Well, I'm not like that.  I've read her writings and I know that
>she's not part of the 'hetkoznapi fasizmus' group.  The only reason I bring
>it up is to remind her that they too are on the political right.

        Oh, really. But, you see, I don't consider myself belonging to any
kind of right. And, by the way, you ought to distinguish between "right" and
"conservativism." But, I am not even a conservative.

>Her
>ceaseless political labeling and cheap shots are nothing more than a futile
>attempt to cover up the shortcomings of her political analysis.

        OK, let's not make any distinction between you and Mr. Nemenyi. I
wonder how much you or Mr. Nemenyi will like it.

        Eva Balogh

At 12:32 AM 7/11/96 GMT, Steve Scherer wrote:

>I like this suggestion very much.

        Meaning: creating a working group and publish a dictionary. I said
it only in jest because somehow I don't think that we are quite qualified.
Although I would enjoy doing something like that very much. After all, at
the age of eleven, when I read about esperanto, I tried to create a
language: I spent countless hours on declentions and conjugations of this
"new" language.

In another post I have
>suggested revising and updating the Orszagh Laszlo dictionary
>(by the way, Eva Balogh, my own four-volume version is dated
>1970 - so I haven't owned it for as much as 30 years . . . )

        I think that the Hungarians are doing something like updating and, I
guess, that's why the new "keziszotar" is called Magay-Orszagh.

>I learnt English more or less independently of Hungarian, too.
>I was 18 when I came to the US. Once I knew the basics, though,
>I switched from English-Hungarian and Hungarian-English
>dictionaries to Webster's (and, subsequently, even the OED).

        I was twenty when I arrived and the fact was that it was a "swim or
sink" situation and most of my English was picked up by living and working
here. However, I did use a four-volume all-English textbook for foreigners.
I am not sure of the spelling of the author's name (maybe Eckersley) but it
was called *Essential English.* It was excellent.

>Speaking of English, I am also frequently annoyed by English
>translations produced in Hungary or even just publications in
>English produced in Hungary. Besides grammatical errors, at
>times glaring, one also encounters very awkward constructions
>on occasion.

        This is a very serious situation. Last time I was in Hungary (March
of this year) I bought a whole bunch of books for a young relative of mine
who is learning English in earnest. When we got home I started looking at
the textbooks and I was horrified. The English was so wooden and so
awkward--I feel sorry for anyone who has to use those books.

        Believe it or not, there is a whole army of translators who work
exclusively for the government. And when I say an army I mean an incredible
number of people. I read somewhere that they occupy a whole huge building in
the heart of Budapest. And, yet, the translations they come up with often
are close to incomprehensibe. Let me quote a few sentence from the Hungarian
government put out for state properties up for sale, hopefully for
foreigners. The very first sentence to the "Dear Reader" will give you some
idea:

"Before you become absorbed in studying the following pages, we wish to give
you some useful advice so that you can spare yourself much annoyance and
disappointment."  Or a few sentences later: "After you have selected the set
which suits you in magnitude, branch of economy and form of investment, you
must collect further data. Such data are available partly from the customer
service and transaction directorates of the State Property Agency, partly
from the company or coproration concerned." And finally, "We hope that this
book, along with other publications of the SPA, will help you participate in
breaking down state property and then in the sucessful operation of private
property." Can you see how the foreign capitalist can "break down state
property" by purchasing one of these companies? As fart as the "annoyance
and disappointment" are concerned, unfortunately the introduction didn't
really help the reader.

        It is very difficult to learn a language--in my opinion--without
being on the spot and I often marvel the younger Hungarians for their
excellent knowledge of English (often in addition to German and French). But
there is nothing like living in the country whose language you are studying.

        Eva Balogh

Steven Scheer wrote:
> Speaking of George Lang, his "Cuisine of Hungary"
> contains a glaring error. The recipe for "galuska" needs exactly
> twice the amount of water specified. I noticed that a new edition
> of this book has been published, too. I checked the recipe for
> galuska and the error still stands. Someone ought to let him
> know. People who are not familiar with Hungarian cuisine and
> who may have tried the galuska recipe are probably of the
> opinion that galuska is this terrible, non-workable concuction . . .

It all depends on how you want to get the dough/batter into the cooking
pot.  To be able to dribble it, you do need a thinner, batter-like mix,
with more water added than in the recipe.

The way I do it is to force the paste through the big holes of a cheese
grater.  This is just fine for the recipe in Lang.  My mother uses a
chopping board and a knife  (the latter a mere blur when in operation),
with an obviously drier dough.

I suppose, Lang's fault is not to point this out.

Also, take care not to overwork the mixture.  It needs just the minimal
necessary amount of mixing, otherwise it becomes very rubbery.

George Antony

At 02:51 PM 7/11/96 -0400, Barna Bozoki wrote:

>I suggest she should look into the "Nemzet" to find strange political
>alliances.

        I'm afraid I don't read the "Nemzet," because I don't want to
support far-right publications and far-right people who are beind the "Nemzet."

>In the July 10. issue there is an interview from the Democrat,
>a so called "right wing" weekly,

        The same applies to the "Demokrata." I am not an avid reader of
right-wing publications.

>where Kosa (socialist member of
>parliament and member of the MSZP presidium) is quoted to say about the
>life in Hungary today, as follows:
>
>"Megdobbent a szabad rablasnak az orulete, ami most zajlik, s ami
>szetforgacsolja az emberek kozti kapcsolatokat. Felelmet es
>bizonytalansagot visz az eletunkbe, s minosegi csokkenest a szellemi
>eletunkbe is -"
>
>A rough free translation: The way thing going on now shocks me, the
>unrestrained profiteering creates division and animosity among the people.
>It creates fear and uncertainty in our life, even the quality of our
>intellectual life is reduced.

>I think both Torgyan and Thurmer have expressed similar views, may be they
>have a common enemy?

        No one in his right mind can approve the kind of corruption which
can be found in Hungary today. Because of the lack of the necessary laws
people who are in position take advantage of the free-for-all state of
affairs. I just read that some local politicians hire *themselves" as
consultants--after all, there is no law which says that they cannot do that.
Given the state of affairs, it is not at all surprising that both Torgyan
and Thurmer can express similar views on corruption. And I am not worried
about this kind of announcements.

        What I am worried about is the following. Both the right and the
left utter very similar demagogic statements: they are practically
indistinguishable from each other. These statements are normally against
foreigners, against the market economy, against European integration,
against the United States, against NATO, against the IFOR troops, against
the kind of democracy I personally would like to see in Hungary.

        I cannot identify myself with either group: either with those who
read the "Demokrata" and the "Nemzet" and whose ideal is some nationalistic
"third road", or those who still think that Karl Marx's utopia is still
forthcoming and think that Hungary "soft dictatorship" is preferable to
democracy.

        Eva Balogh

At 04:42 PM 7/11/96 -0700, Eva Balogh, in a post to Steve Scherer about the
possibility of creating a working group to publish a dictionary, wrote:

>I said it only in jest because somehow I don't think that we are quite
>qualified.  Although I would enjoy doing something like that very much.
>After all, at  the age of eleven, when I read about esperanto, I tried to
>create a language: I spent countless hours on declentions and conjugations
>of this "new" language.

Well, it may have taken some time, but you succeeded.  You've created that
"new" language!  Could it be that our differences are linguistic and not
political?  You should have mentioned this earlier.

Joe Szalai

"The significance of language for the evolution of culture lies in this,
that mankind set up in language a separate world beside the other world, a
place it took to be so firmly set that, standing upon it, it could lift the
rest of the world off its hinges and make itself master of it. To the extent
that man has for long ages believed in the concepts and names of things as
in aeternae veritates he has appropriated to himself that pride by which he
raised himself above the animal: he really thought that in language he
possessed knowledge of the world."
                                   Friedrich Nietzsche

My daughter just completed a very enjoyable year in Szentes, teaching English a
t
a gimnazium there as a part of the Teach Hungary program.  It was a very
rewarding experience for her, and she was able to absorb some of the culture of
Hungary and begin to pick up the basics of the language.  At the end of this
year she decided (reluctantly, and with many mixed emotions) to end her
participation in the program and return to the United States.

Now, she is wondering what American companies (or other organizations) might be
trying to open or expand their operations in Hungary.  She would be interested
in working for such a company so that she could make use of her exposure to
Hungarian language and culture, and to have the opportunity to revisit the
country on a regular basis.

Can anyone on this list offer any suggestions as to what companies might fit
into this category?  Recently, I read in our local Cleveland paper that
Ameritech is one example in the telecommunications area.  Or, are you aware of
any other lists or sources of this kind of information?  (I apologize in advanc
e
if these are not appropriate questions for this list.)

Any help or ideas would be much appreciated...

Mike Lukas